ceejay
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Post by ceejay on May 3, 2020 11:19:48 GMT
... I think they should just liquidate the loans, return cash to investors and shut down AC. ... Which is just about the dumbest idea of them all. Really? How, exactly? Sell them at pennies in the pound? Or are you feverishly imagining that issuing a demand to a late borrower - in today's circumstances - is going to yield any response whatsoever? Calling in receivers, or whatever plan you have in mind, is going to achieve precisely nothing except a huge waste of costs. Personally I'd like to get as much as my cash back as possible, and the only way to achieve that will be forbearance (not that anyone has a lot of choice about that - the courts will have little patience with the impatient). If you'd like to get out quick, with a haircut, then it seems that you will shortly have the opportunity to do so, and I'm sure everyone - including you - will be happier for it.
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cb25
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Post by cb25 on May 3, 2020 11:34:17 GMT
... I think they should just liquidate the loans, return cash to investors and shut down AC. ... Which is just about the dumbest idea of them all. Really? How, exactly? Sell them at pennies in the pound? Or are you feverishly imagining that issuing a demand to a late borrower - in today's circumstances - is going to yield any response whatsoever? Calling in receivers, or whatever plan you have in mind, is going to achieve precisely nothing except a huge waste of costs. Personally I'd like to get as much as my cash back as possible, and the only way to achieve that will be forbearance (not that anyone has a lot of choice about that - the courts will have little patience with the impatient). If you'd like to get out quick, with a haircut, then it seems that you will shortly have the opportunity to do so, and I'm sure everyone - including you - will be happier for it. Not clear if he does. See this "If anyone wants to sell any loans at a 50% discount message me so I can buy them off you - I intend to subsequently put them in the withdrawal queue and redeem at par."
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ilmoro
Member of DD Central
'Wondering which of the bu***rs to blame, and watching for pigs on the wing.' - Pink Floyd
Posts: 11,329
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Post by ilmoro on May 3, 2020 11:43:56 GMT
I am not happy but I am content to cut AC management some slack here. Reality is that there is no possible way that AC could foresee or plan in advance to deal with this unpresedented worldwide crisis and any investor that vents their frustration at AC is misguided, just as the 10s of thousands of people who have lost their jobs or the 10s of thousands of families who have lost loved ones should not blame their employers or hospitals for their losses. I do honestly believe that the board are working as hard as possible to do everything they possibly can to get through this difficult period as painless as possible, but not painless. I can fully understand how disappointed, how frustrated and how angry investors may feel with the current situation but direct your anger at those guilty of causing this pandemic and chaos not the casualties who are doing all they can in our vested interests. I am looking outward with anger to those who caused this crisis by mistake or design, and not inward to those who are doing the best they can to cope with the consequences to the best of their ability. The fact that Funding Circle have managed to get the government to back loans and AC haven't speaks volumes about the ability of the people that run AC. . The issue is the ability to do balance sheet lending, FC apparently can, AC cant which is why it is taking longer for AC to be accredited.
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ilmoro
Member of DD Central
'Wondering which of the bu***rs to blame, and watching for pigs on the wing.' - Pink Floyd
Posts: 11,329
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Post by ilmoro on May 3, 2020 12:07:31 GMT
I have asked a number of times for the directors to come forward with the amount they have invested in the AAs, they are very quick to jump on things I and other posters say which does not agree with how they wish us to see the world but there is a deafening silence on this.
I do not think it is an unreasonable request to ask the directors how much skin they have in the game aka directors of listed companies buying shares on the open market to show they have confidence in the company they run. Perhaps a proportion of the directors pay could be automatically invested in the AAs, this will show confidence to AA holders and help AA holders cash flow in these difficult times.
Im not really surprised that the clearly identifiable directors have chosen not to reveal private financial matters on a public forum. Always amazes me that some people are quite so free with their financial info but then most people on here are anonymous. I suspect that directors are heavily restricted in their investments in the platform for regulatory & compliance reasons and I wouldn't be surprised if they are prohibited from doing so as platforms are. In addition, revealing such information is market sensitive in relation to investment decisions. People may draw conclusions from the investment level, the very reason you are asking, which may influence their financial decisions but on incomplete information. Furthermore, that information would only be available to a select number ie forum readers, and will therefore have compliance issues. Directors who buy shares on the open market have to comply with strict disclosure rules to ensure a level playing field.
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Post by jasonnewman on May 3, 2020 12:44:18 GMT
... I think they should just liquidate the loans, return cash to investors and shut down AC. ... Which is just about the dumbest idea of them all. Really? How, exactly? Sell them at pennies in the pound? Or are you feverishly imagining that issuing a demand to a late borrower - in today's circumstances - is going to yield any response whatsoever? Calling in receivers, or whatever plan you have in mind, is going to achieve precisely nothing except a huge waste of costs. Personally I'd like to get as much as my cash back as possible, and the only way to achieve that will be forbearance (not that anyone has a lot of choice about that - the courts will have little patience with the impatient). If you'd like to get out quick, with a haircut, then it seems that you will shortly have the opportunity to do so, and I'm sure everyone - including you - will be happier for it. I am afraid it is above my pay grade how they get my money back - it is their problem and they are paid huge fees to manage this. I am an investor who invested in access account not a specific loan and when I ask for my money back AC said they will give it back to me in a quick access format, 30 days access or 90 day access. Now if they can't do this then I believe I have been mis-sold a product and they are legally liable for mis-selling just like the banks were liable for miss-selling PPI. It is almost 2 months since I have asked for my cash back from the quick access account.
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Post by Harland Kearney on May 3, 2020 12:48:09 GMT
Which is just about the dumbest idea of them all. Really? How, exactly? Sell them at pennies in the pound? Or are you feverishly imagining that issuing a demand to a late borrower - in today's circumstances - is going to yield any response whatsoever? Calling in receivers, or whatever plan you have in mind, is going to achieve precisely nothing except a huge waste of costs. Personally I'd like to get as much as my cash back as possible, and the only way to achieve that will be forbearance (not that anyone has a lot of choice about that - the courts will have little patience with the impatient). If you'd like to get out quick, with a haircut, then it seems that you will shortly have the opportunity to do so, and I'm sure everyone - including you - will be happier for it. I am afraid it is above my pay grade how they get my money back - it is their problem and they are paid huge fees to manage this. I am an investor who invested in access account not a specific loan and when I ask for my money back AC said they will give it back to me in a quick access format, 30 days access or 90 day access. Now if they can't do this then I believe I have been mis-sold a product and they are legally liable for mis-selling just like the banks were liable for miss-selling PPI. It is almost 2 months since I have asked for my cash back from the quick access account. If only it was a FSCS bank account, and we lived in a dream world. You are free to sell out at the highest discount possible when the SM opens. I will just let others reply to any other parts of the post, can't be as*ed today!
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tjtl
Posts: 232
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Post by tjtl on May 3, 2020 13:39:32 GMT
At the root of all this, the thing that AC stand accused of, and the thing they cannot hide from, is that they didn't predict the Covid-19 virus, didn't have a business model that could continue unaltered if such a virus hit, didn't immediately know exactly how things were going to pan out, and don't have a magic wand. All else is just (rather repetitive) noise. Well the management are clearly guilty as charged, and it seems that some would like to rush them off to the gallows rather than allow them to get on and rescue as much value as they can. And before anyone gets the wrong idea this is intended to be deliberately facetious- just ask how the managers at the raft of SMEs that are forecast to go under in the next few weeks- all guilty of the same heinous crime, all can be found guilty by keyboard vigilantes who have the gift of 2020 vision.
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amwinv
Member of DD Central
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Post by amwinv on May 3, 2020 14:09:34 GMT
Jason... Mate... I just love how you completely fail to respond in detail to every single post that points our your endless confusing hypocrisy.
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amwinv
Member of DD Central
Posts: 198
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Post by amwinv on May 3, 2020 14:18:00 GMT
Jason... Mate... I just love how you completely fail to respond in detail to every single post that points our your endless confusing hypocrisy. Nice one mate 😉 No problem mate. Us "AC shills" have to stick together. Plus I think Jason is actually starting to grow on me. I think me and him might grow to become besties in time.
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alender
Member of DD Central
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Post by alender on May 3, 2020 16:06:33 GMT
I have asked a number of times for the directors to come forward with the amount they have invested in the AAs, they are very quick to jump on things I and other posters say which does not agree with how they wish us to see the world but there is a deafening silence on this.
I do not think it is an unreasonable request to ask the directors how much skin they have in the game aka directors of listed companies buying shares on the open market to show they have confidence in the company they run. Perhaps a proportion of the directors pay could be automatically invested in the AAs, this will show confidence to AA holders and help AA holders cash flow in these difficult times.
Im not really surprised that the clearly identifiable directors have chosen not to reveal private financial matters on a public forum. Always amazes me that some people are quite so free with their financial info but then most people on here are anonymous. I suspect that directors are heavily restricted in their investments in the platform for regulatory & compliance reasons and I wouldn't be surprised if they are prohibited from doing so as platforms are. In addition, revealing such information is market sensitive in relation to investment decisions. People may draw conclusions from the investment level, the very reason you are asking, which may influence their financial decisions but on incomplete information. Furthermore, that information would only be available to a select number ie forum readers, and will therefore have compliance issues. Directors who buy shares on the open market have to comply with strict disclosure rules to ensure a level playing field. Rather than the a director liking your defence of them where you are speculating it is a compliance issues perhaps they could come out and tell us which particular regulation prevents them from investing or informing us of their positions. I am fairly sure if it was a compliance issue this would have been checked they so would know the particular regulation. If this is the case then that is fine and I will happily accept they have no choice, however it is because they chose not to invest so have no skin the game it is a different issue and either way they should come clean.
I for one would be happier if I know the people running the AAs are also in the AAs to a significant level or if they are just making choices with other peoples money, this was not so much of an issue for me until these AAs have been changed and I found out how much of my money had been promised in future tranches which was not available when I invested.
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alender
Member of DD Central
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Post by alender on May 3, 2020 16:25:11 GMT
At the root of all this, the thing that AC stand accused of, and the thing they cannot hide from, is that they didn't predict the Covid-19 virus, didn't have a business model that could continue unaltered if such a virus hit, didn't immediately know exactly how things were going to pan out, and don't have a magic wand. All else is just (rather repetitive) noise. Well the management are clearly guilty as charged, and it seems that some would like to rush them off to the gallows rather than allow them to get on and rescue as much value as they can. And before anyone gets the wrong idea this is intended to be deliberately facetious- just ask how the managers at the raft of SMEs that are forecast to go under in the next few weeks- all guilty of the same heinous crime, all can be found guilty by keyboard vigilantes who have the gift of 2020 vision. IMO the 2 main things AC are accused of is promising a queue and delivering a pool and of not informing investors in AAs of the extent of the future tranches that have been promised on existing loans which will have to be funded by capital repayments from loans owed by AA holders, to find the amount of these tranches requires technical expertise and even then we cannot be sure these are the correct figures. AC have never given us a figure, this to me is an important fact that should be published, I had no idea it would swamp the loan repayments.
There are other issues which I have seen, the one that comes to mind is AC handling of distressed loans, its reluctance to chase lenders and taking a long time to finally write these off causing some lenders problems, as I only invested in the AAs I do not know much about these so if you would like to know more check out posts on this board.
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happy
Member of DD Central
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Post by happy on May 3, 2020 16:31:39 GMT
Which is just about the dumbest idea of them all. Really? How, exactly? Sell them at pennies in the pound? Or are you feverishly imagining that issuing a demand to a late borrower - in today's circumstances - is going to yield any response whatsoever? Calling in receivers, or whatever plan you have in mind, is going to achieve precisely nothing except a huge waste of costs. Personally I'd like to get as much as my cash back as possible, and the only way to achieve that will be forbearance (not that anyone has a lot of choice about that - the courts will have little patience with the impatient). If you'd like to get out quick, with a haircut, then it seems that you will shortly have the opportunity to do so, and I'm sure everyone - including you - will be happier for it. I am afraid it is above my pay grade how they get my money back - it is their problem and they are paid huge fees to manage this. I am an investor who invested in access account not a specific loan and when I ask for my money back AC said they will give it back to me in a quick access format, 30 days access or 90 day access. Now if they can't do this then I believe I have been mis-sold a product and they are legally liable for mis-selling just like the banks were liable for miss-selling PPI. It is almost 2 months since I have asked for my cash back from the quick access account. Totally wrong again Jason. You actually invested in SME and Development loans of varying terms up to 5 years as described in the account key information available on the platform where it is also clearly stated in the description of all the access accounts that instant access is NOT guaranteed and that you may need another investor to be able to sell your loans to to withdraw money You really did not understand what you invested in, are very forgetful or you are just telling fibs. Now which is it Jason?
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tjtl
Posts: 232
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Post by tjtl on May 3, 2020 16:48:38 GMT
At the root of all this, the thing that AC stand accused of, and the thing they cannot hide from, is that they didn't predict the Covid-19 virus, didn't have a business model that could continue unaltered if such a virus hit, didn't immediately know exactly how things were going to pan out, and don't have a magic wand. All else is just (rather repetitive) noise. Well the management are clearly guilty as charged, and it seems that some would like to rush them off to the gallows rather than allow them to get on and rescue as much value as they can. And before anyone gets the wrong idea this is intended to be deliberately facetious- just ask how the managers at the raft of SMEs that are forecast to go under in the next few weeks- all guilty of the same heinous crime, all can be found guilty by keyboard vigilantes who have the gift of 2020 vision. IMO the 2 main things AC are accused of is promising a queue and delivering a pool and of not informing investors in AAs of the extent of the future tranches that have been promised on existing loans which will have to be funded by capital repayments from loans owed by AA holders, to find the amount of these tranches requires technical expertise and even then we cannot be sure these are the correct figures. AC have never given us a figure, this to me is an important fact that should be published, I had no idea it would swamp the loan repayments.
There are other issues which I have seen, the one that comes to mind is AC handling of distressed loans, its reluctance to chase lenders and taking a long time to finally write these off causing some lenders problems, as I only invested in the AAs I do not know much about these so if you would like to know more check out posts on this board.
Both fair points- and as I have posted elsewhere AC management (like most P2P management teams) seem slow in communicating, in PR speak "owning the agenda". I also don't like the slowness in addressing the non-queue point. However I do think that the amount of abuse that the management are being subject to by some posters (not you I hasten to add) is both uncalled for and is written from Ivory Towers- I think I have at least an inkling of what the management are battling with, and for them to be accused of "sitting back and raking in the fees" or words to that effect strike me as plain wrong. I also think that the boring, repetitive , negative posts detract from the real issues, like you have raised, if the management feel they are just getting abuse there is less incentive for them to address the real and valid concerns all investors (should) have.
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alender
Member of DD Central
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Post by alender on May 3, 2020 17:26:12 GMT
IMO the 2 main things AC are accused of is promising a queue and delivering a pool and of not informing investors in AAs of the extent of the future tranches that have been promised on existing loans which will have to be funded by capital repayments from loans owed by AA holders, to find the amount of these tranches requires technical expertise and even then we cannot be sure these are the correct figures. AC have never given us a figure, this to me is an important fact that should be published, I had no idea it would swamp the loan repayments.
There are other issues which I have seen, the one that comes to mind is AC handling of distressed loans, its reluctance to chase lenders and taking a long time to finally write these off causing some lenders problems, as I only invested in the AAs I do not know much about these so if you would like to know more check out posts on this board.
Both fair points- and as I have posted elsewhere AC management (like most P2P management teams) seem slow in communicating, in PR speak "owning the agenda". I also don't like the slowness in addressing the non-queue point. However I do think that the amount of abuse that the management are being subject to by some posters (not you I hasten to add) is both uncalled for and is written from Ivory Towers- I think I have at least an inkling of what the management are battling with, and for them to be accused of "sitting back and raking in the fees" or words to that effect strike me as plain wrong. I also think that the boring, repetitive , negative posts detract from the real issues, like you have raised, if the management feel they are just getting abuse there is less incentive for them to address the real and valid concerns all investors (should) have. Thanks for the reply, appreciate your points.
I think the problem is that emotions are running high on both sided of the argument as there is so much money at stake and people are worried. I have been attacked and misquoted because of my views and I believe (as I stated before) we should try to keep this civil, facts and opinions can and should be challenged but we should try to play the ball not the man. One thing is I leaned a lot more about is the issues around part funded property developments and this has mostly come from people with the opposite views to myself and I am grateful for their input.
Unfortunately for AC they brought some of this on themselves when they set one set of investors against the other in the pool/queue/pro rata issue. However they look like they are going to rectify this so perhaps this will bring down the temperature a bit. It is in all our interests to come out with the minimum amount of losses.
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mikeb
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Post by mikeb on May 3, 2020 18:52:46 GMT
This caught my eye... 'we will be topping up the Access Accounts interest to 3.75% (p.a. equivalent) My bold. On the 30 day Access account, they have indeed paid 3.75% equivalent for April, on 1st May. I note that stuartassetzcapital recent posting said "All unpaid interest is of course accrued and the loan security is held to permit that to be recovered where possible in the future" -- well, my accrued interest figure dropped by the amount I would expect it to for a 5.1%-equiv payout, but I only received the 3.75% in payment. This means the unpaid interest is no longer "accrued" by your accounting system. "Display issue" or "IT glitch" or "no, that money's actually gone, don't expect to see it despite what we say ...." Also, new meaning of "topped up" noted. 5.1% down to 3.75% is not a top-up.
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