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Post by valueinvestor123 on May 29, 2020 9:43:09 GMT
What constitutes 'normal market conditions'?
I mean one can argue that since there will always be worries about the future, it may never happen? I am curious what sort of 'markers' is Assetz waiting for?
Spread betting companies occasionally increase margin rates when there are days of high volatility. But this only is for a short time typically. People still go to shops, pay rent, try to survive & get on with their life. Some assets will not be worth as much as before. What if this is the 'new normal'? Or who decides what is normal?
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r00lish67
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Post by r00lish67 on May 29, 2020 10:03:36 GMT
What constitutes 'normal market conditions'? I mean one can argue that since there will always be worries about the future, it may never happen? I am curious what sort of 'markers' is Assetz waiting for? Spread betting companies occasionally increase margin rates when there are days of high volatility. But this only is for a short time typically. People still go to shops, pay rent, try to survive & get on with their life. Some assets will not be worth as much as before. What if this is the 'new normal'? Or who decides what is normal? It's not a general economic finger in the air type thing, just simply that demand for withdrawals outweighs possible supply. One could argue that we're not ever going to back to how it was. If a discounting mechanism applies to the QAA SM I suppose that would become a 'new normal'.
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Post by valueinvestor123 on May 29, 2020 10:11:02 GMT
What constitutes 'normal market conditions'? I mean one can argue that since there will always be worries about the future, it may never happen? I am curious what sort of 'markers' is Assetz waiting for? Spread betting companies occasionally increase margin rates when there are days of high volatility. But this only is for a short time typically. People still go to shops, pay rent, try to survive & get on with their life. Some assets will not be worth as much as before. What if this is the 'new normal'? Or who decides what is normal? It's not a general economic finger in the air type thing, just simply that demand for withdrawals outweighs possible supply. One could argue that we're not ever going to back to how it was. If a discounting mechanism applies to the QAA SM I suppose that would become a 'new normal'. Demand for withdrawals will persist as long as investors have no faith in the platform. And there will be less faith the longer these restrictions persist. This is catch-22. Assetz and similar platforms are notoriously bad planning for unknown unknowns. You can't, by definition. What you can do is have solid underlying assets to underpin investments. A significant margin of safety. Conservative valuations. And above all, transparency. The incentives and regulation is set up in a way that platforms are trying to maximise returns in good times, leaving them completely exposed for the bad times. Because when bad times come, nobody can hold them accountable (speaking in general).
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r00lish67
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Post by r00lish67 on May 29, 2020 10:24:01 GMT
It's not a general economic finger in the air type thing, just simply that demand for withdrawals outweighs possible supply. One could argue that we're not ever going to back to how it was. If a discounting mechanism applies to the QAA SM I suppose that would become a 'new normal'. Demand for withdrawals will persist as long as investors have no faith in the platform. And there will be less faith the longer these restrictions persist. This is catch-22. Assetz and similar platforms are notoriously bad planning for unknown unknowns. You can't, by definition. What you can do is have solid underlying assets to underpin investments. A significant margin of safety. Conservative valuations. And above all, transparency. The incentives and regulation is set up in a way that platforms are trying to maximise returns in good times, leaving them completely exposed for the bad times. Because when bad times come, nobody can hold them accountable (speaking in general). I'm not entirely sure I understand what your point is here. You're right that demand for withdrawals will likely persist and continue to exceed supply for the moment. A discounting mechanism should however balance that and allow people to sell as required. I think they'd argue they do have "solid underlying assets to underpin investments. A significant margin of safety. Conservative valuations", though obviously a pandemic is a pretty severe test of that. I think it's unfair to characterise all investors as not having faith in the platform (although that's certainly true of some). I'm in the withdrawal queue, but as it happens I do have faith in the platform. In my case, I just recognise that it's likely my specific investments may be impaired due to the pandemic and, as there's no price adjustment mechanism, it is rational to try and sell at par. If I can only sell out at -10% in the near future, then I'll just hold onto them. Either scenario is no reflection on my faith in Assetz, just me buying/selling as I perceive appropriate.
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Post by captainconfident on May 29, 2020 10:33:19 GMT
I'm also in the withdrawal queue but don't particularly want to withdraw. What we don't know is what proportion of the withdrawal queuers would have to desist to make Assetz unlock our accounts. What could solve this conundrum?
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amwinv
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Post by amwinv on May 29, 2020 11:21:15 GMT
I'm also in the withdrawal queue but don't particularly want to withdraw. What we don't know is what proportion of the withdrawal queuers would have to desist to make Assetz unlock our accounts. What could solve this conundrum? Personally, I think having the same interest rate for all 3 access accounts will only have made various people hit the withdrawal queue who might otherwise have been happy to sit and wait it all out. Because theres no point leaving it sat there, not giving the 30/90 day notice if there is absolutely no benefit. So people will play it safe and join the exit queue for no actual disadvantage. The Brits do love a queue! There'll be people who usually have several rolling withdrawals which are normally cancelled and recycled before they actually withdraw... and now all of these are just left to try and exit, making the queue longer and longer. If the 30 and 90 day had higher rates, maybe there'd be more incentive to stay there? And maybe also the option to move QAA "stuck" funds up to the higher tiers and lock them in for better rates. Just my thoughts.
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iRobot
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Post by iRobot on May 29, 2020 12:08:00 GMT
I'm also in the withdrawal queue but don't particularly want to withdraw. What we don't know is what proportion of the withdrawal queuers would have to desist to make Assetz unlock our accounts. What could solve this conundrum? Personally, I think having the same interest rate for all 3 access accounts will only have made various people hit the withdrawal queue who might otherwise have been happy to sit and wait it all out. Because theres no point leaving it sat there, not giving the 30/90 day notice if there is absolutely no benefit. So people will play it safe and join the exit queue for no actual disadvantage. The Brits do love a queue! There'll be people who usually have several rolling withdrawals which are normally cancelled and recycled before they actually withdraw... and now all of these are just left to try and exit, making the queue longer and longer. If the 30 and 90 day had higher rates, maybe there'd be more incentive to stay there? And maybe also the option to move QAA "stuck" funds up to the higher tiers and lock them in for better rates. Just my thoughts. Or ..... stop paying interest on the withdrawal queue? OK. I'm going to start running now. A head-start would be appreciated  
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Post by captainconfident on May 29, 2020 12:19:14 GMT
Personally, I think having the same interest rate for all 3 access accounts will only have made various people hit the withdrawal queue who might otherwise have been happy to sit and wait it all out. Because theres no point leaving it sat there, not giving the 30/90 day notice if there is absolutely no benefit. So people will play it safe and join the exit queue for no actual disadvantage. The Brits do love a queue! There'll be people who usually have several rolling withdrawals which are normally cancelled and recycled before they actually withdraw... and now all of these are just left to try and exit, making the queue longer and longer. If the 30 and 90 day had higher rates, maybe there'd be more incentive to stay there? And maybe also the option to move QAA "stuck" funds up to the higher tiers and lock them in for better rates. Just my thoughts. Or ..... stop paying interest on the withdrawal queue? OK. I'm going to start running now. A head-start would be appreciated If you just give us your real name iRobot, Assetz could name this solution after you! Because there is no cost to joining the queue, we all did it. Either of these ideas would get me to drop my request.
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Post by Harland Kearney on May 29, 2020 12:25:53 GMT
The iRobot's, hit and queue!  |
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Post by honda2ner on May 29, 2020 18:01:32 GMT
What constitutes 'normal market conditions'? I mean one can argue that since there will always be worries about the future, it may never happen? I am curious what sort of 'markers' is Assetz waiting for? Spread betting companies occasionally increase margin rates when there are days of high volatility. But this only is for a short time typically. People still go to shops, pay rent, try to survive & get on with their life. Some assets will not be worth as much as before. What if this is the 'new normal'? Or who decides what is normal? I think it's obvious what normal market conditions are, the return to how things were before mid March, enough liquidity to allow instant withdrawal from Access Accounts. AC can't do anything to get back to normal market conditions except tinker around the edges, it's lenders money that took themselves out of normal market conditions and only lenders money can put themselves back into normal market conditions, AC doesn't have a magic money tree and compared to lenders are insignificant anyway. As some have said we might not ever see the old 'normal' although I suspect Covid will fade rapidly in most people's memory after a few months.
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alender
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Post by alender on May 29, 2020 20:19:55 GMT
One factor keeping money in the withdraw queue is the prospect of a discounted market in the AAs, even if someone wants to stay why not request a withdraw, when the money is paid out buy back in at a discount and then request withdrawal for the new purchase.
IMO this will become the the new normal, the old normal will will require new money in the AAs (buying in at par) to allow normal level of withdrawals and this is unlikely for a long time if at all, made worse by the discounted market , this discounted market will be most likely be the end of the AAs if they were not already finished.
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mrsb
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Post by mrsb on May 30, 2020 5:26:55 GMT
Personally, I think having the same interest rate for all 3 access accounts will only have made various people hit the withdrawal queue who might otherwise have been happy to sit and wait it all out. Because theres no point leaving it sat there, not giving the 30/90 day notice if there is absolutely no benefit. So people will play it safe and join the exit queue for no actual disadvantage. The Brits do love a queue! There'll be people who usually have several rolling withdrawals which are normally cancelled and recycled before they actually withdraw... and now all of these are just left to try and exit, making the queue longer and longer. If the 30 and 90 day had higher rates, maybe there'd be more incentive to stay there? And maybe also the option to move QAA "stuck" funds up to the higher tiers and lock them in for better rates. Just my thoughts. Or ..... stop paying interest on the withdrawal queue? OK. I'm going to start running now. A head-start would be appreciated Hey! That's blatant plagiarism!
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blender
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Post by blender on May 30, 2020 8:07:03 GMT
Normal market conditions are those within which AC can provide the returns and access which they advertise. If they cannot provide the returns and access advertised then, ergo, market conditions are abnormal.
Abnormal market conditions? We cannot allow you to withdraw your cash, we cannot pay the expected interest rate, we cannot pay the incentive bonus as contracted, we need to take some of your returns as fees to be able to continue to manage your loans. Oh, and a friendly robot insists that if you dare to ask for your cash again we should remove your interest completely. OK?
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Post by oppsididitagain on May 30, 2020 8:42:52 GMT
Normal market conditions are those within which AC can provide the returns and access which they advertise. If they cannot provide the returns and access advertised then, ergo, market conditions are abnormal.
Abnormal market conditions? We cannot allow you to withdraw your cash, we cannot pay the expected interest rate, we cannot pay the incentive bonus as contracted, we need to take some of your returns as fees to be able to continue to manage your loans. Oh, and a friendly robot insists that if you dare to ask for your cash again we should remove your interest completely. OK? Is that not normal platform conditions ? Normal market conditions and normal platform conditions could be perceived as 2 different things. Which market are you talking about - The AA market? As we were never prive to knowing what was going on behinds the scenes, Prior to MID March who is to say what normal market conditions were ? How much money was available in the AA queue at any given time then compared to now ? AC have done a great job in p!ssing off the retail side of their business. Until they start funding the retail sector nothing will get better for us, and I doubt we will ever know 100% what normal market conditions are.
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ceejay
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Post by ceejay on May 30, 2020 11:48:55 GMT
There are “two” definitions of normal market conditions: - AC’s tautological one - and the finance theory, practice and reality one. Tosh. There is precisely one market that is relevant here, and that is the market to buy or sell AC's Access Accounts. Everything else is secondary. When the balance swung heavily towards people wanting out, we left "normal". End of.
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