alibaba
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Post by alibaba on Jun 26, 2020 7:53:07 GMT
be nice if they could package all the junk that then could be punted off on this soon to be realised optional new feature - be nice to lose the zombie accounts festering away. Wonder how future tranches will be met when the missold AA accounts are defunct ? A very scary prospect for me, 19k in GBBA1, 40k in GBBA2, 7K in GEA, 7K in MLA, 100K in queue, 9k accrued interest. it appears to me that early investors have been disadvantaged. I firmly believe that a company's success or failure is directly related to how it deals with problems. I am not optimistic.
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ashtondav
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Post by ashtondav on Jun 26, 2020 9:17:23 GMT
be nice if they could package all the junk that then could be punted off on this soon to be realised optional new feature - be nice to lose the zombie accounts festering away. Wonder how future tranches will be met when the missold AA accounts are defunct ? Missold? No missbought. You entered into a long term loan. For a lower rate of interest you invested in an account in which it was possible to SELL, and release funds quicker. SELL. If there are no or few buyers you can’t sell. Simple. Once the SM Comes you will be able to sell as there are quite a few of us who will buy at a discount.
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ian
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Post by ian on Jun 26, 2020 9:29:54 GMT
be nice if they could package all the junk that then could be punted off on this soon to be realised optional new feature - be nice to lose the zombie accounts festering away. Wonder how future tranches will be met when the missold AA accounts are defunct ? Missold? No missbought. You entered into a long term loan. For a lower rate of interest you invested in an account in which it was possible to SELL, and release funds quicker. SELL. If there are no or few buyers you can’t sell. Simple. Once the SM Comes you will be able to sell as there are quite a few of us who will buy at a discount. Maybe your right ..l however maybe we were mis sold given AC are not prepared to fully repatriate redeemed capital... ultimately the courts will decide, as the access accounts appear to be anything but peer to peer.
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blender
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Post by blender on Jun 26, 2020 9:58:22 GMT
Missold? No missbought. You entered into a long term loan. For a lower rate of interest you invested in an account in which it was possible to SELL, and release funds quicker. SELL. If there are no or few buyers you can’t sell. Simple. Once the SM Comes you will be able to sell as there are quite a few of us who will buy at a discount. Maybe your right ..l however maybe we were mis sold given AC are not prepared to fully repatriate redeemed capital... ultimately the courts will decide, as the access accounts appear to be anything but peer to peer. Whether it is peer-to-peer lending rather than a pooled investment is a matter of legal definition and regulation rather than the actual relationship between lender and borrower, in terms of the direct financial connection between lender and borrower. The MLA looks like is true p2p, but I would call the Access Accounts just nominal p2p. The legalities/compliance will have been addressed by Assetz and the FCA. I don't think I would care to challenge that in court. We make our choice and live by the results.
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Post by honda2ner on Jun 26, 2020 11:23:27 GMT
First and foremost many thanks to Stuart for your posts, every word reinforces real investor confidence, this helps us and AC even if it's painful for you. Please keep calm and carry on. Trying not to laugh at some of the hate filled rants on this thread, suggesting that a SM doesn't bring new money in is such a twisted and absurd view, who cares if the total amount in the AAs stays the same, people who want to get out can and people who want to get in (like me, money waiting) can. The fact that a SM helps everyone, even those sellers that stick at par is obvious and if that can't penetrate people's anger then they need help, the fact that these people are attacking those that are trying to help is as low as it's possible to go. Suggesting that the MLA will just cause a liquidity race to the bottom shows a breathtaking lack of understanding of market economics, it will behave like a market, just like all the other free markets on this planet. Can we have some constructive sensible posts like; is the SM coming before new lending or has AC talked to the underwriters it used in the past to reduce the risk of MLA funds being drawn too much towards new loans instead of freeing AA investors who want to leave? Let's try and move forward instead of stupidly circling the same incurable liquidity problem endlessly. The AA SM will not bring new money into the AAs, the total balance will remain the same no mater how much is traded on the SM. Without an AA SM those who invest in the AAs will add new money to the pot but who would do that now when they can wait and buy in at a discount, this SM will stop any chance of new money entering the AAs at the very least quite some time thereby increasing the lock down period or making it a permanent so I care.
The SM does not help everyone, I know this because it does not help me.
It is very simple if the new MLA loans on better terms than the old loans in the AA they will attract money that may otherwise have gone on the MLA SM or the preposed AA SM, less money means larger discounts.
You really need to go to Specsavers. Let me be quite clear, again... I WILL PUT NEW MONEY INTO THE AA SM. THAT MONEY WILL REMOVE PEOPLE FROM THE WITHDRAWAL QUEUE, EVEN IF I FLIP IT BACK UP FOR SALE EVERYONE BEHIND THE PERSON I BOUGHT FROM MOVES CLOSER TO THE FRONT OF THE QUEUE, THAT INCLUDES YOU. THEREFORE THERE IS A VERY GOOD CHANCE YOU WILL BE HELPED BY THE AA SM. Is that clear enough for you? This is very very simple stuff.
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Post by Harland Kearney on Jun 26, 2020 11:28:02 GMT
Ground Hog Day  I'm sure the arguments about the SM will intensify in the coming days and come to a head on its launch. Personally, I'd not bother wasting time, money & resources on a court case about a product you can't sell out of due to lack of sellers. You haven't got a capital loss yet, and are still being paid interest. Additionally AC are trying to resolve the crisis by giving investors options, whilst protecting investors who wish to remain invested with access accounts captial repayments. When the SM is open, you will have alot more options than other platforms with liquidity short comings right now. I don't need to list do I? |
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Post by honda2ner on Jun 26, 2020 11:34:50 GMT
Of course they are toppy, have you not heard of covid? Now everyone of sound mind knows that covid is all ACs fault, they created it just to annoy AA investors (btw, I'm joking). Show me an investment that hasn't taken a hit, there aren't many. Not sure what you are expecting, AC doesn't have a time machine or a magic wand so this post is utterly pointless, we are where we are not in some fantasy where AC just puts us all back in normal operating conditions and defeats covid single handed. Madness. Actually most equity funds I’m in are up significantly YoY; although admittedly I’m heavily in technology / biotechs / American / Japan stocks, however even a balanced portfolio I’ve put my boy in is up near 20% yoy. The point your missing is if you was a banker would you loan against an asset that has a net realisable value less than your loan .... imho assetz should seriously be haircutting their GDVs by a good 20 % which would bring the max LTVs down to 56% based on the original 70% ltv criteria. Personally on other platforms I won’t consider lending against anything with a LTV in excess of 60% with interest rate in excess of 9%. I agree, it will be very interesting to see what the new loans offer, I suspect they will have to be very strong or pay a hefty return. Each and every investor has their own appetite for risk, mine is as heavily motivated by diversification as returns which might prompt me to make small investments in any new loans. I too am targetting LTV under 60% and 9% interest although with a sliding scale for lower LTV. I expect the haircut will come but doing it now whilst half the economy is levitating on government money would be premature, September is a better time, just before the Christmas economic bounce clouds the picture.
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alender
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Post by alender on Jun 26, 2020 13:28:43 GMT
The AA SM will not bring new money into the AAs, the total balance will remain the same no mater how much is traded on the SM. Without an AA SM those who invest in the AAs will add new money to the pot but who would do that now when they can wait and buy in at a discount, this SM will stop any chance of new money entering the AAs at the very least quite some time thereby increasing the lock down period or making it a permanent so I care.
The SM does not help everyone, I know this because it does not help me.
It is very simple if the new MLA loans on better terms than the old loans in the AA they will attract money that may otherwise have gone on the MLA SM or the preposed AA SM, less money means larger discounts.
You really need to go to Specsavers. Let me be quite clear, again... I WILL PUT NEW MONEY INTO THE AA SM. THAT MONEY WILL REMOVE PEOPLE FROM THE WITHDRAWAL QUEUE, EVEN IF I FLIP IT BACK UP FOR SALE EVERYONE BEHIND THE PERSON I BOUGHT FROM MOVES CLOSER TO THE FRONT OF THE QUEUE, THAT INCLUDES YOU. THEREFORE THERE IS A VERY GOOD CHANCE YOU WILL BE HELPED BY THE AA SM. Is that clear enough for you? This is very very simple stuff. Of course I get it but this will not help as I keep explaining which you do not seem to understand there is no new money for the AA pot, i.e. it will not increase the size of the AAs to help liquidity.
Now what will happen is that everyone with any sense who is already invested will request a withdraw of their funds so they get out at par, they can take the money elsewhere or buy back in at a discount increasing their yield and perhaps a capital gain, and then immediately request to withdraw of these funds, I explained this when the AA SM was first considered and stated the only way to stop this behaviour and further disadvantage the AA holder was to create a subordinate loan product once an AA is traded that say perhaps can not be redeemed at par until normal condition return. The exit queue will increase and repayments will decrease for existing AA holders, it that now clear.
Of course this is good news for anyone wanting to enter the AAs and make money by this approach so perhaps why it has so many supporters but bad news for existing AA holders.
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iRobot
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Post by iRobot on Jun 26, 2020 13:39:34 GMT
You really need to go to Specsavers. Let me be quite clear, again... I WILL PUT NEW MONEY INTO THE AA SM. THAT MONEY WILL REMOVE PEOPLE FROM THE WITHDRAWAL QUEUE, EVEN IF I FLIP IT BACK UP FOR SALE EVERYONE BEHIND THE PERSON I BOUGHT FROM MOVES CLOSER TO THE FRONT OF THE QUEUE, THAT INCLUDES YOU. THEREFORE THERE IS A VERY GOOD CHANCE YOU WILL BE HELPED BY THE AA SM. Is that clear enough for you? This is very very simple stuff. Of course I get it but this will not help as I keep explaining which you do not seem to understand there is no new money for the AA pot, i.e. it will not increase the size of the AAs to help liquidity.
Now what will happen is that everyone with any sense who is already invested will request a withdraw of their funds so they get out at par, they can take the money elsewhere or buy back in at a discount increasing their yield and perhaps a capital gain, and then immediately request to withdraw of these funds, I explained this when the AA SM was first considered and stated the only way to stop this behaviour and further disadvantage the AA holder was to create a subordinate loan product once an AA is traded that say perhaps can not be redeemed at par until normal condition return. The exit queue will increase, it that now clear.
I'm confused..... alender: "there is no new money for the AA pot" honda2ner: "I WILL PUT NEW MONEY INTO THE AA SM" What am I missing? (I didn't think a market has to increase in size to have liquidity. MSFTs number of shares doesn't increase every time a trade is made and it's pretty liquid.)
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ian
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Post by ian on Jun 26, 2020 14:08:36 GMT
Of course I get it but this will not help as I keep explaining which you do not seem to understand there is no new money for the AA pot, i.e. it will not increase the size of the AAs to help liquidity.
Now what will happen is that everyone with any sense who is already invested will request a withdraw of their funds so they get out at par, they can take the money elsewhere or buy back in at a discount increasing their yield and perhaps a capital gain, and then immediately request to withdraw of these funds, I explained this when the AA SM was first considered and stated the only way to stop this behaviour and further disadvantage the AA holder was to create a subordinate loan product once an AA is traded that say perhaps can not be redeemed at par until normal condition return. The exit queue will increase, it that now clear.
I'm confused..... alender: "there is no new money for the AA pot" honda2ner: "I WILL PUT NEW MONEY INTO THE AA SM" What am I missing? (I didn't think a market has to increase in size to have liquidity. MSFTs number of shares doesn't increase every time a trade is made and it's pretty liquid.) Your investment merely means you step into the shoes of a n other investor who is now liquidated. You are at the back of the queue for a maximum of 90 days 30 days or nil days dependent on which access account you have purchased the loan from another lender. On the round it does nothing to address liquidity it just shifts exposure from one individual to another.
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iRobot
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Post by iRobot on Jun 26, 2020 14:10:32 GMT
I'm confused..... alender : "there is no new money for the AA pot" honda2ner : "I WILL PUT NEW MONEY INTO THE AA SM" What am I missing? (I didn't think a market has to increase in size to have liquidity. MSFTs number of shares doesn't increase every time a trade is made and it's pretty liquid.) merely means you step into the shoes of a n other investor who is now liquidated. You are at the back of the queue for a maximum of 90 days 30 days or nil days dependent on which access account you have purchased the loan from another lender. On the round it does nothing to address liquidity it just shifts exposure from one individual to another. Thereby creating liquidity. Yes?
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Post by Harland Kearney on Jun 26, 2020 14:14:37 GMT
I'm confused..... alender : "there is no new money for the AA pot" honda2ner : "I WILL PUT NEW MONEY INTO THE AA SM" What am I missing? (I didn't think a market has to increase in size to have liquidity. MSFTs number of shares doesn't increase every time a trade is made and it's pretty liquid.) Your investment merely means you step into the shoes of a n other investor who is now liquidated. You are at the back of the queue for a maximum of 90 days 30 days or nil days dependent on which access account you have purchased the loan from another lender. On the round it does nothing to address liquidity it just shifts exposure from one individual to another. Creates liquidity. Also, it is not guaranteed that one lender exiting, means the new lender will be going straight for the exit. Other than for trading, this doesnt' make much sense. Simple as it sounds, its true.
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SteveT
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Post by SteveT on Jun 26, 2020 14:15:21 GMT
Of course I get it but this will not help as I keep explaining which you do not seem to understand there is no new money for the AA pot, i.e. it will not increase the size of the AAs to help liquidity.
Now what will happen is that everyone with any sense who is already invested will request a withdraw of their funds so they get out at par, they can take the money elsewhere or buy back in at a discount increasing their yield and perhaps a capital gain, and then immediately request to withdraw of these funds, I explained this when the AA SM was first considered and stated the only way to stop this behaviour and further disadvantage the AA holder was to create a subordinate loan product once an AA is traded that say perhaps can not be redeemed at par until normal condition return. The exit queue will increase, it that now clear.
I'm confused..... alender: "there is no new money for the AA pot" honda2ner: "I WILL PUT NEW MONEY INTO THE AA SM" What am I missing? (I didn't think a market has to increase in size to have liquidity. MSFTs number of shares doesn't increase every time a trade is made and it's pretty liquid.) AIUI, alender believes the launch of a SM for the AAs will lead to a greater % of the total AA balances being queued for withdrawal (at Par). Hence, for anyone already in the queue, they will see their funds being returned to them more slowly than currently. Whilst I understand his argument, I strongly suspect the opposite will be true and that the launch of a SM will see the % queued for withdrawal actually reduce. Many AA lenders will have requested withdrawal of their entire holdings simply because it’s currently the only way to start getting any of their money out (even if they have no pressing need for the funds) and so many other lenders are clearly doing it. Once the SM goes live, and a “market rate” discount is established for anyone wanting a fairly rapid exit, the incentive for many to continue to queue for withdrawal will disappear.
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cb25
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Post by cb25 on Jun 26, 2020 14:16:42 GMT
I'm confused..... alender : "there is no new money for the AA pot" honda2ner : "I WILL PUT NEW MONEY INTO THE AA SM" What am I missing? (I didn't think a market has to increase in size to have liquidity. MSFTs number of shares doesn't increase every time a trade is made and it's pretty liquid.) Your investment merely means you step into the shoes of a n other investor who is now liquidated. You are at the back of the queue for a maximum of 90 days 30 days or nil days dependent on which access account you have purchased the loan from another lender. On the round it does nothing to address liquidity it just shifts exposure from one individual to another. As with the comment from iRobot, I disagree with that as being the definition of liquidity. Another example: US treasury bonds and UK gilts are generally thought of as highly liquid, even though the purchaser may have bought an instrument that doesn't get redeemed for 10, 20, 30 years.
I'm not saying you're guilty of it, but some lenders seem to be changing their stance from "I want a way to get out of AAs, ideally at par, but would accept selling at a discount if needed" to "I want to get out of AAs, it has to be at par, AC mustn't introduce new products, the amount of money in AAs has to increase, no other lender should have to suffer investment delays, blah blah blah".
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ian
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Post by ian on Jun 26, 2020 14:17:02 GMT
Your investment merely means you step into the shoes of a n other investor who is now liquidated. You are at the back of the queue for a maximum of 90 days 30 days or nil days dependent on which access account you have purchased the loan from another lender. On the round it does nothing to address liquidity it just shifts exposure from one individual to another. Thereby creating liquidity. Yes? it It merely creates liquidity for the individual who sells at a discount to you. Better possibly allowing investors in the access funds to transfer funds to say a 8% account on the basis of 12 month exit. Borrowers of Further tranches would be charged a 3% premium to fund. That would hopefully leave less in the Other access accounts and might permit them having access to all capital redeemed.
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