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Post by nebula on Aug 6, 2020 9:01:22 GMT
Also at the bottom: Our savers have never lost a single penny despite not being covered by FSCS. Not sure if they're allowed to use "save" like that. Perhaps they could defend themselves by saying "we never said it was a savings account". FCA requires Fair, clear and not misleading financial promotions.
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iRobot
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Post by iRobot on Aug 6, 2020 9:43:32 GMT
Savings. That UG add features in articles dating back to 2015 - maybe even further. Back then Lendy were promoting themselves as " Saving Stream" before, it's thought, the FCA instructed them to change their name and promotional materials some time around Spring 2017, (I think, based on this). Is there anything more recent for RS with 'savings' and/or 'savers' in the content?
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starfished
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Post by starfished on Aug 6, 2020 9:53:44 GMT
RS, even when it used language loosely, was clearly not a bank nor a building society. It offered no Fcsc protection and therefore shouldn't have been considered a savings account. It is abdication of personal responsibility to say otherwise. See this page from Fidelity. Thier product has even won an award... They use "savings" and "investment" interchangeably but it is clearly still not a savings account... www.fidelity.co.uk/planning-guidance/regular-saving-benefits/
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bt
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Post by bt on Aug 6, 2020 10:05:18 GMT
RS, even when it used language loosely, was clearly not a bank nor a building society. It offered no Fcsc protection and therefore shouldn't have been considered a savings account. It is abdication of personal responsibility to say otherwise. See this page from Fidelity. Thier product has even won an award... They use "savings" and "investment" interchangeably but it is clearly still not a savings account... www.fidelity.co.uk/planning-guidance/regular-saving-benefits/It was clearly not a bank or building society. I'd say it was not clearly an investment. It's P2P, which to me is another category altogether, supposedly somewhere between the two in risk. And although capital risk was mentioned, it was made out to be protected. And to a consumer saver like me, to whom these adverts were clearly directed, this seemed ok!
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aju
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Post by aju on Aug 6, 2020 11:16:51 GMT
RS, even when it used language loosely, was clearly not a bank nor a building society. It offered no Fcsc protection and therefore shouldn't have been considered a savings account. It is abdication of personal responsibility to say otherwise. See this page from Fidelity. Thier product has even won an award... They use "savings" and "investment" interchangeably but it is clearly still not a savings account... www.fidelity.co.uk/planning-guidance/regular-saving-benefits/It was clearly not a bank or building society. I'd say it was not clearly an investment. It's P2P, which to me is another category altogether, supposedly somewhere between the two in risk. And although capital risk was mentioned, it was made out to be protected. And to a consumer saver like me, to whom these adverts were clearly directed, this seemed ok! Whilst I have certain sympathy with the arguments the fact this had no real protection should surely have not been missed with anyone who takes time to understand what they are investing in. Its is an investment not a savings account. There was never and will probably never be any fsca cover (Too expensive for the small companies making little "profit" out of running p2p platforms to provide full cover) I started with Zopa where there was no such thing as SG/PF etc. I opened up with a tenner in the early days. Played around with it read all the threads in those day Zopa had their own forum. After nearly a year decided to try £100 to see how it got on. Small steps or what but we were reaping in quite a bit from the banks interest and stoozing and the like. Zopa then introduce the SG so we fed in a bit more money and by then I had left my job and had a kings to play with (nearly lost my shirt on a punt with icelandics in late 2007/2008 that put a stop to stoozing and got a stay of execution from the government phew. Before this pandemic hit we were reaping some returns in Zopa and started to look at RS as a second option - we were still raking in good rates from the bank accounts etc especially the current accounts. Again I spent ages looking at the forums on here, Zopa had closed their forum so there were new horizons to be explored. I asked a lot of questions there were and still are a lot of knowledgeable people on these forums. So eventually we opened up accounts and then slowly fed money in to see how it worked etc. So where we are now is that in RS we had a good level of investment so I started looking at a few more P2P and was getting close to staring with Assetz I think it was. Zopa was suffering and before the Pandemic I had been suffering from defaults creep, the PF was closed quite a while but we had sold off quite a bit to fund RS as it had better rates and it has the PF that was useful but not a guarantee. Sadly when yo sell off loans in Zopa you get default pain too - well we did both of us in fact. I had made a decision before the pandemic that we would reduce and leave Zopa as soon as possible by the end of tax year. Then bang the pandemic hit. Our sales had got in ok on Zopa so we were fairly close to the queue front then they moved the goalpost and create a queued system not a FIFo one. So we are nearly out of Zopa - still have loads of defaults and forbearance blocks that may come good but who knows what will happen in the next 3 weeks never mind months. So on to RS, I was still blind to the fact that it might not be easy to get out of RS too, we had really high rates so the 50% hit on interest was not really much of an issue. We waited to see where things went not realising that we were too late anyway it was past the wall in march. Now fortunately I had known all about risk and SG/PF cover wasn't guaranteed so early on I had punted for the best rates on the 5Y and the 1Y steering largely clear of the Rolling as it was known before changing to Access. So we got average rates of 5-6% and most was in 5Y which fortunately is now clearing and getting quite close too. So why have I written this mini version war and peace. I hope it goes to show that I am not stupid or naive in this thing called p2p, I am retired and have some spare cash that I knew I did not need so having to wait for funds to return is not an issue - in fact one should never really invest money they cannot afford to lose or worse need quickly as it may not be possible to get out that quick. P2P is not saving, its most definitely investing and investments mean you must be prepared to lose your shirt because you may get it taken from your back one day like now. A run on the banks is covered by the FSCS a run on p2p Investments is not covered by anyone but yourself! Sorry if this is painful for some to come to terms with but its just the reality.
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macq
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Post by macq on Aug 6, 2020 11:17:08 GMT
The trouble is the term "savings" does get bandied about a bit when describing finance products - I only know from looking at the weekend but A J Bell on their pension home page uses a headline Saving for retirement and lines such as a SIPP is a flexible way to manage your "savings" and where to invest your "savings"etc Assume the FCA are happy for it to be taken in context (until their not?)
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aju
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Post by aju on Aug 6, 2020 11:33:43 GMT
When you use a bill board advert such as that shown and then invent an account called ACCESS then in my mind they targeted naive consumers who don't read or understand T&C's. This is bourne out by negative reviews on Trustpilot. Sadly you are right and to be fair I never invested until I left work and had the backing of my kings for want of a better term. That said I was 53 and i haven't worked since - ok so I have worked for myself this p2p, saving, shares, and accounts malarkey takes some serious effort and having no safety net from the 1st day I took the money and ran its been a case of if I don't understand how it works and its pitfalls I don't work with it. My motto has always been taken from a work phrase - KISS - Keep it simple stupid. If I don't understand all its pitfalls then I'm not in. That's me I don't have money to throw around even if its spare. I guess I was always lucky in that buying my first second hand car when I was 21 the note the guy wrote on the slip he gave me when I handed over the notes - all cash in them days - was Caveat Emptor. I had to look it up as latin was not something taught at my secondary school. I think it sums all this stuff up and it's saved me quite a few times over the years. Buyer beware ...
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Post by gar on Aug 6, 2020 12:03:09 GMT
The bold text below is a cut and paste off the RS site showing the Hanna Barbara cartoon tick box test to validate your investing experience. Bottom line appears to be tick whatever box you like it does not matter, therefore why waste time reading the T&Cs after reading such a cavalier throw away sentence for the entry test.
**EDIT** The service we are still receiving and is quite good though, credit where its due, pardon the pun.
"Choose your profile Before you can make a new investment, you will need to classify yourself based on your experience of investing. This is a requirement for all investors by the Financial Conduct Authority, but don’t worry, it won't affect your choice of investment products or the service you receive from RateSetter."
1 Self-certified Sophisticated 2 Restricted 3 Certified Sophisticated 4 High Net Worth
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beagle
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Post by beagle on Aug 6, 2020 12:06:42 GMT
The bold text below is a cut and paste off the RS site showing the Hanna Barbara cartoon tick box test to validate your investing experience. Bottom line appears to be tick whatever box you like it does not matter, therefore why waste time reading the T&Cs after reading such a cavalier throw away sentence for the entry test. "Choose your profileBefore you can make a new investment, you will need to classify yourself based on your experience of investing. This is a requirement for all investors by the Financial Conduct Authority, but don’t worry, it won't affect your choice of investment products or the service you receive from RateSetter."1 Self-certified Sophisticated 2 Restricted 3 Certified Sophisticated 4 High Net Worth actually it does matter - i ticked one and had to prove it.
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bt
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Post by bt on Aug 6, 2020 12:16:02 GMT
Ah, stoozing! Those were the days!
Looking back, I notice RS started posting about RYI problems on this forum on Mar 13th.
And yet the first email I had from them on Mar 16th could be summarised as 'don't worry, we're not the stock market'. Only by the 27th did I get an email hinting at problems.
I only found out about the problems as I attempted to RYI on the 21st Mar as I needed a deposit for a property purchase, and as the delays became longer and longer I found this forum via Twitter in late April.
Had I been told earlier there were problems I'd have got my request in sooner, and could be looking at a payback about now!
I do find it 'unhelpful' that RS were talking about problems on here but keeping the bulk of their customers in the dark.
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coogaruk
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Post by coogaruk on Aug 6, 2020 13:44:27 GMT
I can't read the small print from here and even though I accept RS has been compared with savings products with some clever marketing in the past, that doesn't mean it is savings.
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Greenwood2
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Post by Greenwood2 on Aug 6, 2020 13:52:22 GMT
The bold text below is a cut and paste off the RS site showing the Hanna Barbara cartoon tick box test to validate your investing experience. Bottom line appears to be tick whatever box you like it does not matter, therefore why waste time reading the T&Cs after reading such a cavalier throw away sentence for the entry test. **EDIT** The service we are still receiving and is quite good though, credit where its due, pardon the pun. "Choose your profileBefore you can make a new investment, you will need to classify yourself based on your experience of investing. This is a requirement for all investors by the Financial Conduct Authority, but don’t worry, it won't affect your choice of investment products or the service you receive from RateSetter."1 Self-certified Sophisticated 2 Restricted 3 Certified Sophisticated 4 High Net Worth Wasn't there also a test to prove you understood the product?
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coogaruk
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Post by coogaruk on Aug 6, 2020 13:55:31 GMT
The trouble is the term "savings" does get bandied about a bit when describing finance products - I only know from looking at the weekend but A J Bell on their pension home page uses a headline Saving for retirement and lines such as a SIPP is a flexible way to manage your "savings" and where to invest your "savings"etc Assume the FCA are happy for it to be taken in context (until their not?) Exactly. And what does one do with their savings in order to diversify / improve returns, etc? Invest them!
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coogaruk
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Post by coogaruk on Aug 6, 2020 14:03:53 GMT
The bold text below is a cut and paste off the RS site showing the Hanna Barbara cartoon tick box test to validate your investing experience. Bottom line appears to be tick whatever box you like it does not matter, therefore why waste time reading the T&Cs after reading such a cavalier throw away sentence for the entry test. **EDIT** The service we are still receiving and is quite good though, credit where its due, pardon the pun. "Choose your profileBefore you can make a new investment, you will need to classify yourself based on your experience of investing. This is a requirement for all investors by the Financial Conduct Authority, but don’t worry, it won't affect your choice of investment products or the service you receive from RateSetter."1 Self-certified Sophisticated 2 Restricted 3 Certified Sophisticated 4 High Net Worth Your bold refers to investment twice, investing and investors but not once to savings or savers. I do agree though that the self-certification is not much more than a tickbox exercise imposed on p2p by the FCA.
My memory lets me down more often than not at my age but when I first 'signed up' with RS back in 2012 I'm pretty sure it was as an investor not a saver.
That said, I do feel that RS has been a bit misleading at times, particularly to those who might be experienced savers but less so investors among us.
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Greenwood2
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Post by Greenwood2 on Aug 6, 2020 14:08:33 GMT
The bold text below is a cut and paste off the RS site showing the Hanna Barbara cartoon tick box test to validate your investing experience. Bottom line appears to be tick whatever box you like it does not matter, therefore why waste time reading the T&Cs after reading such a cavalier throw away sentence for the entry test. **EDIT** The service we are still receiving and is quite good though, credit where its due, pardon the pun. "Choose your profileBefore you can make a new investment, you will need to classify yourself based on your experience of investing. This is a requirement for all investors by the Financial Conduct Authority, but don’t worry, it won't affect your choice of investment products or the service you receive from RateSetter."1 Self-certified Sophisticated 2 Restricted 3 Certified Sophisticated 4 High Net Worth Your bold refers to investment twice, investing and investors but not once to savings or savers. I do agree though that the self-certification is not much more than a tickbox exercise imposed on p2p by the FCA.
My memory lets me down more often than not at my age but when I first 'signed up' with RS back in 2012 I'm pretty sure it was as an investor not a saver.
That said, I do feel that RS has been a bit misleading at times, particularly to those who might be experienced savers but less so investors among us.
I think if you selected restricted you were advised you could only invest 10% of your savings (don't remember the exact wording).
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