michaelc
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Post by michaelc on Aug 5, 2020 10:58:46 GMT
So I don't have it I don't think (touch wood as have just had more exposure to others in the past few days than for the previous few months put together due to flying and going to packed kids playgrounds etc in Kiev).
But it has been a hugely dominating feature of our lives as it probably has for many other families. In our case, our young kids have serious developmental issues and they urgently need more exposure not just to therapies etc but to other kids. We've been avoiding that in the UK for a long time. Too long I think.
So I woke up this morning with this thought. I don't in any way try to trivialise the medical situation (economic is something else) its clearly extremely serious. Many on this and other forums make quick comparisons to flu which those (like me usually) tend not to like as it serves to play down the seriousness.
Anyway, my thought was to extend this and wonder if it is helpful to consider it as another "flu"! Another flu that kills large numbers of people and another flu that might double or so the numbers needing hospitalisation due to "flu". Another flu requiring significant additional nhs capacity especially during winter. And another flu that affects millions preventing them from working etc. And another "flu" that has the potential to be lethal especially for the elderly and infirm.
Is considering this as a completely independent contagious disease that is likely to affect a similar order of magnitude as regular flu way off the mark?
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iRobot
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Post by iRobot on Aug 5, 2020 11:27:22 GMT
Not sure how to give an opinion on this as I'm not entirely sure what you're asking, but he goes...
Is it 'another flu'? Yes - in as much as it is spread like other types of flu and mutates like them; and No - in as much as there isn't (yet) a way if inoculating against it, hence the pandemic and socio-economic impact
Is it ruling / ruining your life? Surely only you can answer that? You appear to have a decision to move to another country, so how did CV-19 influence that decision? Did you leave the UK because of CV-19? Does the new country have a good (comparative) record in dealing with CV-19? Does it have a good medical infrastructure (that you can access) should you or your family contract CV-19? And so on ...
(Sorry! That's asked more questions than it's answered!!)
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m2btj
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Post by m2btj on Aug 5, 2020 12:15:56 GMT
So I don't have it I don't think (touch wood as have just had more exposure to other in the past few days than for the previous few months put together due to flying and going to packed kids playgrounds etc in Kiev). But it has been a hugely dominating feature of our live as it probably has for many other families. In our case, our young kids have serious developmental issues and they urgently need more exposure not just to therapies etc but to other kids. We've been avoiding that in the UK for a long time. Too long I think. So I woke up this morning with this thought. I'm don't in any way try to trivialise the medical situation (economic is something else) its clearly extremely serious. Many on this and other forums make quick comparisons to flu which those (like me usually) tend not to like as it serves to play down the seriousness. Anyway, my thought was to extend this and wonder if it is helpful to consider it as another "flu"! Another flu that kills large numbers of people and another flu that might double or so the numbers needing hospitalization due to "flu". Another flu requiring significant additional nhs capacity especially during winter. And another flu that affects millions preventing them from working etc. And another "flu" that has the potential to be lethal especially in the elderly and infirm. Is considering this as a completely independent contagious disease wide that is likely to affect a similar order of magnitude as regular flue way off the mark? At the start of the pandemic government scientists, Prof. Neil Ferguson for one, led me to believe that up to 250,000 would die. Mainstream media jumped on this & put fear into the general population. However, ONS statistics show C-19 accounts for around 2% of all weekly deaths & has claimed the lives of approx 0.06% of the population. The disease can be fatal in the elderly & vulnerable but the threat to the general population is small. In fact, it hardly registers on ONS bar charts for those under 60 years of age. We are now seeing the early economic & social impact of C-19. Mass unemployment, rising mental health issues, suicide & increasing death rates from non C-19 related illness. Lockdown has taken away liberties & unemployment has eroded self esteem. A vaccine maybe two or three years away & we must accept the virus, like all other virus', will remain in within society. I will not live my live in fear of a virus I've got very little chance of catching. IF I catch it, I expect to experience no more than seasonal flu like symptoms. Live your life without fear & do whatever you believe is best for YOU & YOUR family! The alternative is a to live as a zombie, the living dead.
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jonno
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nil satis nisi optimum
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Post by jonno on Aug 5, 2020 15:25:13 GMT
Is it ruining your life ? Have you caught it, are you in a bed in ICU with a tube down your throat ? Thought not. Leave the dramatics for drama students. Is it ruling your life ? By the sounds of it you are letting it rule it. I think you need to find some more things to distract your errant mind. All the above said, of course I wish you and your family all the best. But ultimately its your decision, there's not much a bunch of people on the internet can do about you and your personal circumstances. Mmm. So did you complete your counselling qualification?
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jonno
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Post by jonno on Aug 5, 2020 15:39:06 GMT
So I don't have it I don't think (touch wood as have just had more exposure to other in the past few days than for the previous few months put together due to flying and going to packed kids playgrounds etc in Kiev). But it has been a hugely dominating feature of our live as it probably has for many other families. In our case, our young kids have serious developmental issues and they urgently need more exposure not just to therapies etc but to other kids. We've been avoiding that in the UK for a long time. Too long I think. So I woke up this morning with this thought. I'm don't in any way try to trivialise the medical situation (economic is something else) its clearly extremely serious. Many on this and other forums make quick comparisons to flu which those (like me usually) tend not to like as it serves to play down the seriousness. Anyway, my thought was to extend this and wonder if it is helpful to consider it as another "flu"! Another flu that kills large numbers of people and another flu that might double or so the numbers needing hospitalization due to "flu". Another flu requiring significant additional nhs capacity especially during winter. And another flu that affects millions preventing them from working etc. And another "flu" that has the potential to be lethal especially in the elderly and infirm. Is considering this as a completely independent contagious disease wide that is likely to affect a similar order of magnitude as regular flue way off the mark? An interesting and thought provoking post. I understand where you're coming from, but I see a similar conclusion but from a slightly different angle. I think a major underlying error that people make is their trivialisation of "ordinary Flu". I have never had it (apart from the man-type) but members of my family have and I can tell you that it is extremely serious and can be life threatening not only to "old and infirm". The main difference is that it can be inoculated against. So until a vaccine is developed or at least very effective treatment it will be difficult for people to view it as "just" another flu even though the vast majority of them have not been inoculating themselves in any case yet in most cases have never caught it.
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jonno
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Post by jonno on Aug 6, 2020 9:45:55 GMT
Mmm. So did you complete your counselling qualification?
I'm just saying lets not blow things out of proportion here.
What happened in Lebanon the other day ? That's life ruining.
Having your "normal" life disrupted for a year or two ? Not quite on the same scale.
But yes, as you surmise. I'm not a counselor. I'm a believer in the fact that if you need a psychologist, you go see real one, you don't come to internet forums looking for armchair shrinks.
Wow, you really are a piece of work aren't you. You may see everything in life as a competition with winners and losers, but ranking one heart-rending disaster above another really is beyond the pale. I'm sure that someone who has lost a loved -one this week is thinking "Ah well, here's me totally devastated by the loss of my mum when really it could have been so much worse had she lived in Beirut". You really should just take a minute before you post such thoughtless, disgusting rubbish. Stick to your pompous snobbery on the finance threads.
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Post by bernythedolt on Aug 6, 2020 10:33:17 GMT
Mmm. So did you complete your counselling qualification?
I'm just saying lets not blow things out of proportion here.
What happened in Lebanon the other day ? That's life ruining.
Having your "normal" life disrupted for a year or two ? Not quite on the same scale.
But yes, as you surmise. I'm not a counselor. I'm a believer in the fact that if you need a psychologist, you go see real one, you don't come to internet forums looking for armchair shrinks.
It's perfectly reasonable to ask for the opinions of others about this disease and its disruption. That process alone can put one's mind at ease. It has hit some families pretty hard and they want answers, or at least the opportunity to distill the opinions of others. It certainly doesn't follow that the OP needs to consult a psychologist! It's actually rather rude to suggest as much, especially in the way you've gone about it, "errant mind" indeed.
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cb25
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Post by cb25 on Aug 6, 2020 10:45:41 GMT
I'm just saying lets not blow things out of proportion here.
What happened in Lebanon the other day ? That's life ruining.
Having your "normal" life disrupted for a year or two ? Not quite on the same scale.
But yes, as you surmise. I'm not a counselor. I'm a believer in the fact that if you need a psychologist, you go see real one, you don't come to internet forums looking for armchair shrinks.
It's perfectly reasonable to ask for the opinions of others about this disease and its disruption. That process alone can put one's mind at ease. It has hit some families pretty hard and they want answers, or at least the opportunity to distill the opinions of others. It certainly doesn't follow that the OP needs to consult a psychologist! It's actually rather rude to suggest as much, especially in the way you've gone about it, "errant mind" indeed. @wallstreet 's post doesn't say that. It says " IF you need a psychologist, you go see real one,.." (my capitals)
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Post by bernythedolt on Aug 6, 2020 11:01:26 GMT
The inference is perfectly clear.
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james100
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Post by james100 on Aug 6, 2020 11:10:24 GMT
michaelc Couple of random thoughts: I understood (hopefully incorrectly) the Ukrainian healthcare system to be relatively poor so I'd be ensuring you a) know your personal (and family members') risk of serious illness and b) have access to adequate healthcare in the even you get it, prior to changing your approach to risk. You know you are likely to get ill anyway in the month or 2 after an expatriation as you're exposed to new everyday germs, right? Horrible, normal, expected. Having done 8 country moves I truly believe it's a fantastic opportunity to review approaches to risk and life in general simply because different situations force different behaviors, but it can also magnify anxieties...lots of resources there these days for specialized expat/repat challenges e.g. I found iamatriangle helpful a few years ago for reverse culture shock following an involuntary repatriation. I've heard good things about Internations as well for city-specific support. To your original point on framing it as 'another flu', this is basically the approach I take now for myself. I'm low risk lifestyle, geographical area and demographic. I'm happy to wear a mask to keep my germs from others, wash my hands and I don't break the law (to my knowledge...I zoned out on "the rules" about a month ago). I am infinitely more concerned about my physical health which has declined as a result of lockdown than I am about covid. Do what works for you. Best of luck.
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star dust
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Post by star dust on Aug 6, 2020 16:57:01 GMT
Mod Hat On/
Play nicely now folks, this thread is in danger of going off the rails. I'm sure it wasn't michaelc's intent to start a fracas among forum members, and you're doing him a disservice by prolonging it.
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travolta
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Post by travolta on Aug 6, 2020 17:59:36 GMT
It appears that you cant vacinate against flu varients either. Popping of to the Docs every autumn seems social therapy for the worried old. The stuff they give you is pretty random and frequently u/s against the current strains.
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Post by bernythedolt on Aug 6, 2020 18:09:03 GMT
Mod Hat On/
Play nicely now folks, this thread is in danger of going off the rails. I'm sure it wasn't michaelc 's intent to start a fracas among forum members, and you're doing him a disservice by prolonging it. Exactly, and I trust michaelc will disregard the ruder, more ignorant, comments on this thread... as will I.
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michaelc
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Post by michaelc on Aug 7, 2020 10:03:49 GMT
I think part of it is my fault. I chose the title of the thread hoping it might attract more viewers and got more than I'd bargained for. I realised some might read the thread title only and not read my post but I didn't think any of them would then go on to post a reply. I'd very much wanted the discussion to be about framing it as a second illness although an implication of seeing it "just" as a second flu might be to worry less about it which is what informed the subject of the post.
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