dead-money
Rocket to the Moon
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Post by dead-money on Aug 7, 2020 13:59:14 GMT
"If I cancel a par value withdrawal from the 30DAA or 90DAA and transfer to the QAA to then have the choice of a discounted withdrawal through the marketplace..."
So I'm guessing the 'Transfer' option is a new button yet to appear ?
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iRobot
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Post by iRobot on Aug 7, 2020 14:06:57 GMT
"If I cancel a par value withdrawal from the 30DAA or 90DAA and transfer to the QAA to then have the choice of a discounted withdrawal through the marketplace..."
So I'm guessing the 'Transfer' option is a new button yet to appear ?
Judging by the screen shot in the email, when you click on Withdraw get a "From" and a "To" option where, I suspect, "To" can be another Access Account or the "Cash Account" as shown.
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dead-money
Rocket to the Moon
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Post by dead-money on Aug 7, 2020 14:21:08 GMT
Yep, reminds me of the issue a little while ago when they managed to inadvertently block transfers between IFISA Cash and Std. Cash accounts.
There's probably been some code inserted determining which transfers are allowed and which aren't.
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Post by bradley02 on Aug 7, 2020 14:53:52 GMT
From Stuart in May. Will this still apply ??
will be posting details of how the secondary market works once details are finalised and a little closer to launch. As requested though, we can now answer some questions.
It is presently intended that the existing withdrawals in the original withdrawal queue shall remain in place and at their present date and time stamp as per that withdrawal queue. They shall therefore now be called 'Sell' orders at par (full) value and with no discount in the new marketplace. It is presently intended that those go back to a FIFO priority and that all trades at par value will execute in the date order they were originally posted. The old withdrawal system is therefore planned to be absorbed into the marketplace and returns to FIFO, although of course offers to sell at a discount will be served to new investors first of all so that new investment automatically takes advantage of the oldest and highest discounts first of all.
Any loan redemption capital that is repaid to investors is intended to be paid pro rata to the size of each Sell order instruction in the marketplace, hence reducing your sell order if it is still waiting to execute against a new willing buyer
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SteveT
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Post by SteveT on Aug 7, 2020 15:02:28 GMT
It’s consistent with this morning’s emails
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Post by bradley02 on Aug 7, 2020 15:04:46 GMT
It’s consistent with this morning’s emails Thank you Steve. The recommencement of FIFO would be a big improvement. I must of misread that pro rara withdrawals as now would continue.
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Post by bradley02 on Aug 7, 2020 15:18:33 GMT
Apologies and final message on this but..
On this forum 2nd May from S.Law regarding proposed SM
We will be posting details of how the secondary market works once details are finalised and a little closer to launch. As requested though, we can now answer some questions.
It is presently intended that the existing withdrawals in the original withdrawal queue shall remain in place and at their present date and time stamp as per that withdrawal queue. They shall therefore now be called 'Sell' orders at par (full) value and with no discount in the new marketplace. It is presently intended that those go back to a FIFO priority and that all trades at par value will execute in the date order they were originally posted. The old withdrawal system is therefore planned to be absorbed into the marketplace and returns to FIFO, although of course offers to sell at a discount will be served to new investors first of all so that new investment automatically takes advantage of the oldest and highest discounts first of all.
Any loan redemption capital that is repaid to investors is intended to be paid pro rata to the size of each Sell order instruction in the marketplace, hence reducing your sell order if it is still waiting to execute against a new willing buyer.
Interest will operate as normal we expect.
Further details will be issued in due course and this explanation enhanced. Please post questions away from this information thread thank you.
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drgonzo
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Post by drgonzo on Aug 7, 2020 15:37:19 GMT
My understanding / interpretation of what's been said so far is that:
1/ loan redemptions (borrowers repaying) will continue to be distributed to investors on a pro-rata basis, as has been happening for the past few months (apart from this week!), regardless of your pending withdrawal requests and where you may be in any queue.
2/ Secondary Market trades (other lenders buying your current holdings from the withdrawal queue) will be based on your position in the queue at the given discount rate, which will be 0% for existing (pre-SM) withdrawal requests.
So for those of us with outstanding QAA withdrawal requests who don't want to sell at a discount, we'll still be getting the trickle of money from repayments, and our original withdrawal request will go into a FIFO queue at 0% discount based on the original date of that request, but obviously we won't be getting any money from any SM trades whilst offers to sell at any discount exist.
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r00lish67
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Post by r00lish67 on Aug 7, 2020 15:42:33 GMT
<snip>
So for those of us with outstanding QAA withdrawal requests who don't want to sell at a discount, we'll still be getting the trickle of money from repayments, and our original withdrawal request will go into a FIFO queue at 0% discount based on the original date of that request, but obviously we won't be getting any money from any SM trades whilst offers to sell at any discount exist. So, if one wishes to exit then would it be best to leap on at the smallest discount level (-0.5%? -1%?) to attain the position of 'oldest' discount at that range? I think whether FIFO is enabled from the start (at best discount) needs clarifying. It presumably is, unless offers at the same discount level are nibbled away in sync at when a buy request comes in. Actually that sounds plausible given the AC system. Or it could be that only par offers are handled proportionately whilst any offers at a discount greater than 0% is FIFO. Yeah...needs clarification IMV.. edit: reading the e-mail again, it seems pretty clear that for now at least, par offers are not FIFO:
"Your request has automatically been converted to a ‘par value’ (0% discount) marketplace Withdrawal Instruction and will retain its position in the queue. This Withdrawal Instruction will continue to be fulfilled over time on a pro-rata basis (as is currently the case)"
(ignore this, it's wrong)
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ceejay
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Post by ceejay on Aug 7, 2020 15:59:53 GMT
<snip>
So for those of us with outstanding QAA withdrawal requests who don't want to sell at a discount, we'll still be getting the trickle of money from repayments, and our original withdrawal request will go into a FIFO queue at 0% discount based on the original date of that request, but obviously we won't be getting any money from any SM trades whilst offers to sell at any discount exist. So, if one wishes to exit then would it be best to leap on at the smallest discount level (-0.5%? -1%?) to attain the position of 'oldest' discount at that range? I think whether FIFO is enabled from the start (at best discount) needs clarifying. It presumably is, unless offers at the same discount level are nibbled away in sync at when a buy request comes in. Actually that sounds plausible given the AC system. Or it could be that only par offers are handled proportionately whilst any offers at a discount greater than 0% is FIFO. Yeah...needs clarification IMV.. Not sure where the confusion is, it seems clear enough to me. If you're selling then you are in a simple FIFO queue, ranked first by amount of discount and then by time of withdrawal request. So I'm not sure what you'd achieve by chucking in a sell order at the lowest discount level - sure you'll be ahead of all of the 0% requests, but if there are any deeper discounted offers (safe to assume there will be for some time to come) then you'll never sell. Meanwhile redemptions will continue to be handed out pro rata whereever you are in the queue.
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drgonzo
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Post by drgonzo on Aug 7, 2020 16:09:25 GMT
So, if one wishes to exit then would it be best to leap on at the smallest discount level (-0.5%? -1%?) to attain the position of 'oldest' discount at that range? I think whether FIFO is enabled from the start (at best discount) needs clarifying. It presumably is, unless offers at the same discount level are nibbled away in sync at when a buy request comes in. Actually that sounds plausible given the AC system. Or it could be that only par offers are handled proportionately whilst any offers at a discount greater than 0% is FIFO. Yeah...needs clarification IMV.. I would say so, yes... especially if you were late getting your withdrawal request in (I think mine was 13th March). I intend to keep my withdrawals at par as they should be near the front of that block, but I'm working on the assumption that I won't benefit from any SM activity for a considerable period (if ever) on those withdrawal requests. Maybe in a few years once the majority of (good) loans have repaid I will look to sell the remains at whatever discount is necessary, but I've resigned myself to just receiving the redemption payments for the foreseeable future. I take it as saying FIFO will be enabled from the start for all SM offers at the same rate (including the 'legacy' par offers)... but yes, explicit confirmation would be nice ( chris ?). Edit: The "This Withdrawal Instruction will continue to be fulfilled over time on a pro-rata basis (as is currently the case)" bit I interpret as referring to redemption distributions only, not SM activity. Happy to be wrong on that though!
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Post by capricorn on Aug 7, 2020 16:15:04 GMT
For information: The second e-mail tells us that before investing at discount we have to cancel any current withdrawal instruction for access accounts. I asked if that means withdrawal instructions in BOTH Standard and ISA accounts - the answer was No, Standard and ISA accounts will operate independently.
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r00lish67
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Post by r00lish67 on Aug 7, 2020 16:17:19 GMT
So, if one wishes to exit then would it be best to leap on at the smallest discount level (-0.5%? -1%?) to attain the position of 'oldest' discount at that range? I think whether FIFO is enabled from the start (at best discount) needs clarifying. It presumably is, unless offers at the same discount level are nibbled away in sync at when a buy request comes in. Actually that sounds plausible given the AC system. Or it could be that only par offers are handled proportionately whilst any offers at a discount greater than 0% is FIFO. Yeah...needs clarification IMV.. Not sure where the confusion is, it seems clear enough to me. If you're selling then you are in a simple FIFO queue, ranked first by amount of discount and then by time of withdrawal request. So I'm not sure what you'd achieve by chucking in a sell order at the lowest discount level - sure you'll be ahead of all of the 0% requests, but if there are any deeper discounted offers (safe to assume there will be for some time to come) then you'll never sell. Meanwhile redemptions will continue to be handed out pro rata whereever you are in the queue. Hm yes, perhaps you're right re: FIFO. I think I had been thrown by Stuart's email today saying "This Withdrawal Instruction will continue to be fulfilled over time on a pro-rata basis", but reading it again that probably only applies to pro-rata loan redemptions as opposed to people buying into the QAA. Re: selling at lowest discount level, I still think though that if you wanted to sell out but aren't in a huge rush, you might benefit from throwing in a low-ball offer. Sure, liquidity won't be there for you at first, but with some big loan redemptions it might catch up and then you'll be the very first in line. In any case, you can always switch to a greater discount if you feel the need later on. Personally, I'm happy holding on at par for the moment.
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ceejay
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Post by ceejay on Aug 7, 2020 16:17:35 GMT
<snip>
So for those of us with outstanding QAA withdrawal requests who don't want to sell at a discount, we'll still be getting the trickle of money from repayments, and our original withdrawal request will go into a FIFO queue at 0% discount based on the original date of that request, but obviously we won't be getting any money from any SM trades whilst offers to sell at any discount exist. ... edit: reading the e-mail again, it seems pretty clear that for now at least, par offers are not FIFO: " Your request has automatically been converted to a ‘par value’ (0% discount) marketplace Withdrawal Instruction and will retain its position in the queue. This Withdrawal Instruction will continue to be fulfilled over time on a pro-rata basis (as is currently the case)"No, I am pretty sure that you are confusing regular redemptions (what we've been getting over the last few weeks) with a sale to somebody else. Redemptions are prorata to your whole holding in the AAs and involve money leaving the AAs. A sale by you to someone else results in no change to the total AA holding, and is done FIFO - in the hypothetical case of a par sell order ever making it to the front of the queue.
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r00lish67
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Post by r00lish67 on Aug 7, 2020 16:18:43 GMT
... edit: reading the e-mail again, it seems pretty clear that for now at least, par offers are not FIFO: " Your request has automatically been converted to a ‘par value’ (0% discount) marketplace Withdrawal Instruction and will retain its position in the queue. This Withdrawal Instruction will continue to be fulfilled over time on a pro-rata basis (as is currently the case)"No, I am pretty sure that you are confusing regular redemptions (what we've been getting over the last few weeks) with a sale to somebody else. Redemptions are prorata to your whole holding in the AAs and involve money leaving the AAs. A sale by you to someone else results in no change to the total AA holding, and is done FIFO - in the hypothetical case of a par sell order ever making it to the front of the queue. X'd with you. Yep I agree, I'm wrong.
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