blender
Member of DD Central
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Post by blender on Aug 15, 2020 21:51:27 GMT
Now down to 5.7% for £100 purchase at 22:50 on Sat 15 Aug
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upperdeane
Member of DD Central
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Post by upperdeane on Aug 16, 2020 8:51:12 GMT
Now down to 5.7% for £100 purchase at 22:50 on Sat 15 Aug 5.9% at the moment
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dead-money
Rocket to the Moon
Posts: 746
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Post by dead-money on Aug 17, 2020 8:24:41 GMT
Discount required to sell £10,000 of Access Account holdings:
Wednesday 12/08/20: evening 8%, 9%, 10% Thursday 13/08/20: 8am until 8pm 6.6%, 9.25% 7.6%, 6.8%, 8.2%, 8.3% Friday 14/08/20: 9am 7.3%, 11am 5.5%, 12noon 6.5%, 5pm 6%, overnight 6.8%
Saturday 15/08/20: 8am 6.1% 6pm 6.6%
Sunday 16/08/20: 8am 6.0% 6pm 6.6%
Monday 17/08/20 9am 6.3% 12 noon 6.8% 5pm ?? %
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mrsb
Posts: 196
Likes: 102
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Post by mrsb on Aug 17, 2020 9:04:22 GMT
6.3% didn't last long!
Going back to the [lack of] repayments ...
Isn't there a difficultly now with making such payments. Surely the SM would need to be turned-off briefly, and then anyone with 100% of their holdings up for sale would either need to miss out on their cash, or have their sell order(s) modified. That on top of a payment would create a material difference in what was "for sale" in the SM.
Is this explained anywhere -- apologies if I've missed it.
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SteveT
Member of DD Central
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Post by SteveT on Aug 17, 2020 9:26:49 GMT
Isn't there a difficultly now with making such payments. Surely the SM would need to be turned-off briefly, and then anyone with 100% of their holdings up for sale would either need to miss out on their cash, or have their sell order(s) modified. That on top of a payment would create a material difference in what was "for sale" in the SM. Is this explained anywhere -- apologies if I've missed it. There shouldn't be. Even prior to the SM launch, if you'd set up a request to withdraw all of your funds, the amount awaiting withdrawal automatically reduced each time a capital distribution was made. Eg. you'd requested withdrawal of your entire £1000 QAA balance, then received a £10 capital distribution, so your withdrawal request reduced to £990. The fact that you can now add a 5% discount offer to your requested £1000 withdrawal doesn't change that.
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mrsb
Posts: 196
Likes: 102
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Post by mrsb on Aug 17, 2020 9:33:36 GMT
Isn't there a difficultly now with making such payments. Surely the SM would need to be turned-off briefly, and then anyone with 100% of their holdings up for sale would either need to miss out on their cash, or have their sell order(s) modified. That on top of a payment would create a material difference in what was "for sale" in the SM. Is this explained anywhere -- apologies if I've missed it. There shouldn't be. Even prior to the SM launch, if you'd set up a request to withdraw all of your funds, the amount awaiting withdrawal automatically reduced each time a capital distribution was made. Eg. you'd requested withdrawal of your entire £1000 QAA balance, then received a £10 capital distribution, so your withdrawal request reduced to £990. The fact that you can now add a 5% discount offer to your requested £1000 withdrawal doesn't change that. Yea, you're right - BUT - the SM is a new thing - additional to what was happening prior. The two are not synchronous in any way, a buyer can hit 'invest' at the same instant as a 'repayment' hits. Of course "same instant" is a virtual thing, and in reality one happens before the other. If there's any kind of multi-threading going on in the code, or multiple passes in an algorithm ..... the whole thing stinks of a "race conditions". Without an explanation, I suggest that the lack of repayment could well be because they don't yet know hoe to do it!
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upperdeane
Member of DD Central
Posts: 493
Likes: 245
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Post by upperdeane on Aug 17, 2020 9:48:17 GMT
Discount required to sell £10,000 of Access Account holdings:
Wednesday 12/08/20: evening 8%, 9%, 10% Thursday 13/08/20: 8am until 8pm 6.6%, 9.25% 7.6%, 6.8%, 8.2%, 8.3% Friday 14/08/20: 9am 7.3%, 11am 5.5%, 12noon 6.5%, 5pm 6%, overnight 6.8%
Saturday 15/08/20: 8am 6.1% 6pm 6.6%
Sunday 16/08/20: 8am 6.0% 6pm 6.6%
Monday 17/08/20 9am 6.3% 12 noon ?? % 5pm ?? %
7.4% right now
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Post by angel19 on Aug 17, 2020 9:57:28 GMT
I guess the lack of any par withdrawal distributions and no update/comment from AC has created a level of fear that will push people to offload at larger discounts. That creates a rather unfair market that will need better oversight if AC want to avoid FCA criticism.
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sapphire
Member of DD Central
Posts: 489
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Post by sapphire on Aug 17, 2020 10:02:11 GMT
6.3% didn't last long! Going back to the [lack of] repayments ... Isn't there a difficultly now with making such payments. Surely the SM would need to be turned-off briefly, and then anyone with 100% of their holdings up for sale would either need to miss out on their cash, or have their sell order(s) modified. That on top of a payment would create a material difference in what was "for sale" in the SM. Is this explained anywhere -- apologies if I've missed it. The (perceived) value of a AA 'package' consisting of 90% Investments + 10% cash would be different from that consisting of say 95% investments + 5% cash. Following a AA cash distribution this mix of investments and cash will change and so their (perceived) value, so is it not appropriate that SM trading be suspended for a while so that buyers and sellers are given an opportunity to review and revise their bids & offers, if they feel the need to do so, based on the new 'mix' of what is being traded?
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cb25
Posts: 3,528
Likes: 2,668
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Post by cb25 on Aug 17, 2020 10:02:20 GMT
There shouldn't be. Even prior to the SM launch, if you'd set up a request to withdraw all of your funds, the amount awaiting withdrawal automatically reduced each time a capital distribution was made. Eg. you'd requested withdrawal of your entire £1000 QAA balance, then received a £10 capital distribution, so your withdrawal request reduced to £990. The fact that you can now add a 5% discount offer to your requested £1000 withdrawal doesn't change that. Yea, you're right - BUT - the SM is a new thing - additional to what was happening prior. The two are not synchronous in any way, a buyer can hit 'invest' at the same instant as a 'repayment' hits. Of course "same instant" is a virtual thing, and in reality one happens before the other. If there's any kind of multi-threading going on in the code, or multiple passes in an algorithm ..... the whole thing stinks of a "race conditions". Without an explanation, I suggest that the lack of repayment could well be because they don't yet know hoe to do it! I would assume they use 'locking' (serialization) techniques and/or suspension of tasks to stop two different processes impacting each other
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ceejay
Posts: 975
Likes: 1,149
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Post by ceejay on Aug 17, 2020 10:07:31 GMT
There shouldn't be. Even prior to the SM launch, if you'd set up a request to withdraw all of your funds, the amount awaiting withdrawal automatically reduced each time a capital distribution was made. Eg. you'd requested withdrawal of your entire £1000 QAA balance, then received a £10 capital distribution, so your withdrawal request reduced to £990. The fact that you can now add a 5% discount offer to your requested £1000 withdrawal doesn't change that. Yea, you're right - BUT - the SM is a new thing - additional to what was happening prior. The two are not synchronous in any way, a buyer can hit 'invest' at the same instant as a 'repayment' hits. Of course "same instant" is a virtual thing, and in reality one happens before the other. If there's any kind of multi-threading going on in the code, or multiple passes in an algorithm ..... the whole thing stinks of a "race conditions". Without an explanation, I suggest that the lack of repayment could well be because they don't yet know hoe to do it! I think you're reading far too much into this! I would be astonished if a technical gap of that magnitude had been allowed to open up. It's not like it's all that hard - stop the market running, make the distribution, restart the market. No fundamental difference from what they do in the MLA when a loan is making a repayment. The delay is much more likely to be social than technical: how will the market behave if a wedge of cash suddenly appears? Or perhaps waiting for a level of stability to appear first?
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mrsb
Posts: 196
Likes: 102
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Post by mrsb on Aug 17, 2020 10:23:02 GMT
Yea, you're right - BUT - the SM is a new thing - additional to what was happening prior. The two are not synchronous in any way, a buyer can hit 'invest' at the same instant as a 'repayment' hits. Of course "same instant" is a virtual thing, and in reality one happens before the other. If there's any kind of multi-threading going on in the code, or multiple passes in an algorithm ..... the whole thing stinks of a "race conditions". Without an explanation, I suggest that the lack of repayment could well be because they don't yet know hoe to do it! I think you're reading far too much into this! I would be astonished if a technical gap of that magnitude had been allowed to open up. It's not like it's all that hard - stop the market running, make the distribution, restart the market. No fundamental difference from what they do in the MLA when a loan is making a repayment. The delay is much more likely to be social than technical: how will the market behave if a wedge of cash suddenly appears? Or perhaps waiting for a level of stability to appear first? MLA parts don't include "cash" and their mix of happy vs toxicity doesn't change with a repayment, and therefore a whole different thing. As for "social" factors, that really is a bit sinister, and perhaps (if you're right) a manipulation that's somewhat inappropriate. Perhaps there's a case for having market hours?
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cb25
Posts: 3,528
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Post by cb25 on Aug 17, 2020 10:27:08 GMT
Buying discount back down to 6.1%
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blender
Member of DD Central
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Post by blender on Aug 17, 2020 10:42:04 GMT
AC control the timing of the matching of bids and offers, and I am sure that they can avoid contentions with distributions. I think we can expect less frequent and managed distributions of larger amounts, rather than an 'automatic' process. The cash distributions provide too good an opportunity to have a lever to pull when needed - say if the discounts get 'too high'. Or not to pull (yet) when people here are being nasty about those who have a hand on the lever.
Edit: So, planned to resume on Weds 19 see this post p2pindependentforum.com/post/399730/thread
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alender
Member of DD Central
Posts: 981
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Post by alender on Aug 17, 2020 11:54:45 GMT
6.3% didn't last long! Going back to the [lack of] repayments ... Isn't there a difficultly now with making such payments. Surely the SM would need to be turned-off briefly, and then anyone with 100% of their holdings up for sale would either need to miss out on their cash, or have their sell order(s) modified. That on top of a payment would create a material difference in what was "for sale" in the SM. Is this explained anywhere -- apologies if I've missed it. The (perceived) value of a AA 'package' consisting of 90% Investments + 10% cash would be different from that consisting of say 95% investments + 5% cash. Following a AA cash distribution this mix of investments and cash will change and so their (perceived) value, so is it not appropriate that SM trading be suspended for a while so that buyers and sellers are given an opportunity to review and revise their bids & offers, if they feel the need to do so, based on the new 'mix' of what is being traded? This is one of the many reasons this is complex financial product and virtually impossible to perform MTM, the cash element. PF and the amount in each of the 500+ loans some of which are suspended are constantly changing.
When you post a sell or buy order there is a very good chance the product mix and risk will have changed before the order is executed especially if a large distribution has taken place.
Imagine AC get spooked by the FCA looking at returning unused cash to lenders and pay this cash out or AC just decide to make a large payout, if say the AAs drop from 11%+ cash to 5% or less then buy orders already on the SM will be offering to buy into a more toxic product (more loans, less cash, more suspended loans as a %) at the same price than when order was placed. Also this is true for interest payments, if a buy order was placed on say 20th but was not fulfilled until 1st of the next month as lenders were waiting for interest payments before placings on the SM the buyer will miss the interest payment and is therefore buying in a less valuable asset than when the order was placed. Of course we are all aware of interest payments but how can this be handled in the SM, if a large number of people were to withdraw their offers a few days before the end of the month and replace them on 1st of the next month this will distort the market. Other financial products deal with this by X dividend dates, equalisations payments etc. As we all know when this is coming it can be said you are aware so can make your own arrangements but unless repayments are reported in advance you could easily buy today's less valuable product at yesterdays higher price.
There is also the possibility AC could change the interest rate while you are in a buy or sell queue again changing the value of the product.
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