des
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Post by des on Aug 13, 2020 13:33:12 GMT
Borrower Sector: Property Development
Loan Amount: £ 440,000
Ablrate Lenders’ Loan Amount: up to £396,000
Term: 12 months (6 months minimum term).
Rate: 13% - Interest Only.
Security: Company Debenture, Corporate Guarantee, Assignment by Way of Security over Project Specific Security including Second Ranking Legal Charge.
Instant Returns: Enabled.
Loan Launch: 11am – 13th August 2020 (READ ONLY).
Loan Live: 2pm – 13th August 2020.
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Post by Ace on Aug 13, 2020 14:57:53 GMT
ABLrate Lenders’ Loan Amount: adjusted to £396,000. I'm surprised this one isn't filling quicker. - All of the development risk has already passed.
- All 3 properties complete and on the market.
- A minimum of 6 months interest even if sales complete earlier.
- Our borrower has serviced its other ABLrate loans throughout the Covid19 crisis.
- Other loans to this borrower are trading above par on the SM.
I'm in. |
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p2pfan
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Post by p2pfan on Aug 14, 2020 14:19:38 GMT
It looks like a very good investment indeed on paper.
However, the reason many people might not be investing in it to a significant extent is because (a) the complicated security structures might not be readily realisable in a real world scenario (debentures etc. = based on experience these are likely to be worthless/almost worthless when it comes to the crunch and are a world away from a first charge security) (b) this is another P1 loan, so lenders may be hesitant to put more eggs into the P1 basket in case things go wrong.
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criston
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Post by criston on Aug 14, 2020 16:34:50 GMT
Surely it's the 'second legal charge' principal project specific security, to consider first, before looking at the debenture etc.
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boundah
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Post by boundah on Aug 14, 2020 16:44:49 GMT
Surely it's the 'second legal charge' principal project specific security, to consider first, before looking at the debenture etc. Agreed. I've always avoided all 2nd charges on all platforms, no matter how secure they otherwise appear.
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criston
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Post by criston on Aug 14, 2020 17:39:29 GMT
One sale gets us down to 62% LTV; two sales gets us down to 56% LTV; three sales pays us back completely (at 49% LTV)
I am OK with that risk, with this company & that interest rate.
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ilmoro
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'Wondering which of the bu***rs to blame, and watching for pigs on the wing.' - Pink Floyd
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Post by ilmoro on Aug 14, 2020 18:27:30 GMT
It looks like a very good investment indeed on paper. However, the reason many people might not be investing in it to a significant extent is because (a) the complicated security structures might not be readily realisable in a real world scenario (debentures etc. = based on experience these are likely to be worthless/almost worthless when it comes to the crunch and are a world away from a first charge security) (b) this is another P1 loan, so lenders may be hesitant to put more eggs into the P1 basket in case things go wrong. Debentures are first charge security, they are fixed & floating charges over all the companies assets including any property (unless subject to a another lenders fixed charge), as opposed to a mortgage which is just over the specific named asset. The issue here is that the debenture is over the borrower assets which doesnt include the property and is shared with all their other loans.
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TitoPuente
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Post by TitoPuente on Aug 14, 2020 19:05:22 GMT
Yes. The issue with P1 and other multiple loan borrowers is that if the TopCo goes belly up it will affect all loans no matter how solid or low LTV they individually are.
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Post by Ace on Aug 14, 2020 19:45:49 GMT
It looks like a very good investment indeed on paper. However, the reason many people might not be investing in it to a significant extent is because (a) the complicated security structures might not be readily realisable in a real world scenario (debentures etc. = based on experience these are likely to be worthless/almost worthless when it comes to the crunch and are a world away from a first charge security) (b) this is another P1 loan, so lenders may be hesitant to put more eggs into the P1 basket in case things go wrong. Debentures are first charge security, they are fixed & floating charges over all the companies assets including any property (unless subject to a another lenders fixed charge), as opposed to a mortgage which is just over the specific named asset. The issue here is that the debenture is over the borrower assets which doesnt include the property and is shared with all their other loans. Yes, but that's in addition to the second charge security over the 3 houses, right?
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ilmoro
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'Wondering which of the bu***rs to blame, and watching for pigs on the wing.' - Pink Floyd
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Post by ilmoro on Aug 14, 2020 20:23:13 GMT
Debentures are first charge security, they are fixed & floating charges over all the companies assets including any property (unless subject to a another lenders fixed charge), as opposed to a mortgage which is just over the specific named asset. The issue here is that the debenture is over the borrower assets which doesnt include the property and is shared with all their other loans. Yes, but that's in addition to the second charge security over the 3 houses, right? Yes, though that in itself is an assignment rather than a specific charge in Ablrates name.
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p2pfan
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Post by p2pfan on Aug 15, 2020 11:53:28 GMT
Yes, but that's in addition to the second charge security over the 3 houses, right? Yes, though that in itself is an assignment rather than a specific charge in Ablrates name. Yes, ilmoro is absolutely right. Like I said, this looks good on paper, but in a 'real world' scenario is a world away from a first charge or a directly held second charge in either our names or Ablerate's name. I've probably spent 30-40 hours this week, as with many weeks over the last few months, trying to get paid debts that had stronger securities than this but were with complicated set-ups like this. In a real world situation it is extremely difficult to get your money back when the legal and moral framework in this country is very strongly biased in favour of borrowers and the law generally allows incorporated companies and their Directors to avoid their liabilities. Nonetheless, I have invested into this as I have faith in AblRate's abilities and the return is exceptionally good for these times.
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Post by Badly Drawn Stickman on Aug 15, 2020 17:16:43 GMT
Football analogy time.
Ablrate has made a few impressive saves, but currently a good few incidents are under VAR review and could go either way. So possibly whilst endeavor and persistence are not fair game for questioning, overall outcome should be.
Switching to film reference mode.
These property loans have Terminator qualities and simply will not stop coming and if they do come unstuck would be a John Wick scenario. My worry is that following the yellow brick road hoping the wizard will solve the problem, would simply prove that you already had the answer.
Summary...
I am in, but only because I am out of another.
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criston
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Post by criston on Aug 28, 2020 17:36:37 GMT
Almost there in 16 days with 2nd charge 69% LTV
142 struggles over 5 months with 1st charge 56% LTV.
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Post by Badly Drawn Stickman on Aug 28, 2020 21:09:54 GMT
Almost there in 16 days with 2nd charge 69% LTV 142 struggles over 5 months with 1st charge 56% LTV. LTV is a pretty unreliable guide I have discovered. Arguably very different types of loan, my heart would actually far rather support projects like 142 than 147. I suppose a comparison between these two probably proves the investment logic quite well, 147 essentially depends on three houses selling in a reasonable time for somewhere near the guide price (plus a few other variables obviously) and we all go home happy. 142 is much more complex (and more variables that you could put in a big variable storage box), but in the big scheme of things 142 is probably the loan that could make a difference in the World. I might do a deal with myself and any profit I make on 147 will reinvest in the next tranche (assuming there is one) of 142. I feel a little like an eco warrior now, might even climb a tree tomorrow.
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Post by eascogo on Aug 28, 2020 22:23:38 GMT
Investment now £439,826 (100%). Only a few pennies needed to get the loan over the line.
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