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Post by p2plender on Aug 17, 2020 1:45:08 GMT
Well they're perhaps doing better than some might say. Many of my loans appear to be originating or originated at 14%+. Now of course as we approach tough times, then many loans might go bad but given the paltry rates lenders are getting, the old provision fund must be brimming...
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robski
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Post by robski on Aug 17, 2020 7:37:07 GMT
RS make a contribution to the PF its not the balance between lender and borrower that goes to the PF
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beagle
Investor in ratesetter, funding circle, lendy (lesson learnt) and AC
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Post by beagle on Aug 17, 2020 8:48:01 GMT
RS make a contribution to the PF its not the balance between lender and borrower that goes to the PF Ratesetter do not make a contribution. The borrower does, it is written into their loan agreement and is part of the costs.
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Post by freefalljunkie on Aug 17, 2020 8:56:13 GMT
I doubt Ratesetter are making much money. Given the unbelievably low figure Metro Bank have paid for Ratesetter I reckon it is pretty likely they were staring down the barrel of insolvency and had no option but to accept whatever they could get for the business. Massive humiliation for Rhydian Lewis and co, regardless of what the PR blurb states.
It will be interesting to see where the PF is at the end of the month - bound to brimming :-)
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beagle
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Post by beagle on Aug 17, 2020 9:08:17 GMT
I doubt Ratesetter are making much money. Given the unbelievably low figure Metro Bank have paid for Ratesetter I reckon it is pretty likely they were staring down the barrel of insolvency and had no option but to accept whatever they could get for the business. Massive humiliation for Rhydian Lewis and co, regardless of what the PR blurb states. It will be interesting to see where the PF is at the end of the month - bound to brimming :-) I think this is wrong. P2P was not working for Funding circle P2P was not working for ZOPA They both changed their model (one got rid of retail). Ratesetter changed their model too and sold themselves to be a lender (thin cats, FC, etc). As a matter of fact - in Feb the news was about Ratesetter being on the edge of profitability. No way can this model sustain covid like many as it has to offer forbearance with investors asking for money back. If Ratesetter had to accept any offer why would metro not wait for them to go bust and pick up the assets they wanted. A business not surviving COVID is not a humiliation at all and it is small minded to think that. If your work collapsed would it be a humiliation? The provision fund will be inflated true but not in anyway brimming.
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coogaruk
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Post by coogaruk on Aug 17, 2020 9:53:03 GMT
RS make a contribution to the PF its not the balance between lender and borrower that goes to the PF Ratesetter do not make a contribution. The borrower does, it is written into their loan agreement and is part of the costs. So do lenders currently of course.
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beagle
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Post by beagle on Aug 17, 2020 9:58:42 GMT
Ratesetter do not make a contribution. The borrower does, it is written into their loan agreement and is part of the costs. So do lenders currently of course. how do you mean here?
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Greenwood2
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Post by Greenwood2 on Aug 17, 2020 10:19:45 GMT
I doubt Ratesetter are making much money. Given the unbelievably low figure Metro Bank have paid for Ratesetter I reckon it is pretty likely they were staring down the barrel of insolvency and had no option but to accept whatever they could get for the business. Massive humiliation for Rhydian Lewis and co, regardless of what the PR blurb states. It will be interesting to see where the PF is at the end of the month - bound to brimming :-) I think this is wrong. P2P was not working for Funding circle P2P was not working for ZOPA
They both changed their model (one got rid of retail). Ratesetter changed their model too and sold themselves to be a lender (thin cats, FC, etc). As a matter of fact - in Feb the news was about Ratesetter being on the edge of profitability. No way can this model sustain covid like many as it has to offer forbearance with investors asking for money back. If Ratesetter had to accept any offer why would metro not wait for them to go bust and pick up the assets they wanted. A business not surviving COVID is not a humiliation at all and it is small minded to think that. If your work collapsed would it be a humiliation? The provision fund will be inflated true but not in anyway brimming. P2P is still working for Zopa! They have just expanded into other products (so far anyway).
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coogaruk
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Post by coogaruk on Aug 17, 2020 11:07:18 GMT
So do lenders currently of course. how do you mean here? 50% of our interest earned since 4th May has been paid into the PF.
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beagle
Investor in ratesetter, funding circle, lendy (lesson learnt) and AC
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Post by beagle on Aug 17, 2020 12:57:58 GMT
I think this is wrong. P2P was not working for Funding circle P2P was not working for ZOPA
They both changed their model (one got rid of retail). Ratesetter changed their model too and sold themselves to be a lender (thin cats, FC, etc). As a matter of fact - in Feb the news was about Ratesetter being on the edge of profitability. No way can this model sustain covid like many as it has to offer forbearance with investors asking for money back. If Ratesetter had to accept any offer why would metro not wait for them to go bust and pick up the assets they wanted. A business not surviving COVID is not a humiliation at all and it is small minded to think that. If your work collapsed would it be a humiliation? The provision fund will be inflated true but not in anyway brimming. P2P is still working for Zopa! They have just expanded into other products (so far anyway). They expanded into banking... where is there profit?
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beagle
Investor in ratesetter, funding circle, lendy (lesson learnt) and AC
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Post by beagle on Aug 17, 2020 12:58:30 GMT
50% of our interest earned since 4th May has been paid into the PF. in that context 100%
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Greenwood2
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Post by Greenwood2 on Aug 17, 2020 14:04:56 GMT
P2P is still working for Zopa! They have just expanded into other products (so far anyway). They expanded into banking... where is there profit? Have to wait and see, but at least they are expanding (into banking and FSCS protected products) not winding up or giving up on P2P. What will happen in the future we don't know, but I don't think Zopa should be lumped together with the platforms that have died or are in dire straits at the minute. Tempting fate here. I know.
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beagle
Investor in ratesetter, funding circle, lendy (lesson learnt) and AC
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Post by beagle on Aug 17, 2020 14:23:49 GMT
They expanded into banking... where is there profit? Have to wait and see, but at least they are expanding (into banking and FSCS protected products) not winding up or giving up on P2P. What will happen in the future we don't know, but I don't think Zopa should be lumped together with the platforms that have died or are in dire straits at the minute. Tempting fate here. I know. the only real difference is Zopa raised capital in time and obtained a bank license both lost money
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Post by diversifier on Aug 17, 2020 14:50:06 GMT
I doubt Ratesetter are making much money. Given the unbelievably low figure Metro Bank have paid for Ratesetter I reckon it is pretty likely they were staring down the barrel of insolvency and had no option but to accept whatever they could get for the business. Massive humiliation for Rhydian Lewis and co, regardless of what the PR blurb states. It will be interesting to see where the PF is at the end of the month - bound to brimming :-) I think this is wrong. P2P was not working for Funding circle P2P was not working for ZOPA They both changed their model (one got rid of retail). Ratesetter changed their model too and sold themselves to be a lender (thin cats, FC, etc). As a matter of fact - in Feb the news was about Ratesetter being on the edge of profitability. No way can this model sustain covid like many as it has to offer forbearance with investors asking for money back. If Ratesetter had to accept any offer why would metro not wait for them to go bust and pick up the assets they wanted. A business not surviving COVID is not a humiliation at all and it is small minded to think that. If your work collapsed would it be a humiliation? The provision fund will be inflated true but not in anyway brimming. I completely agree (unfortunately) that the larger problem is not Ratesetter, it is P2P retail business case doesn’t work. But, the cause of that isn’t Covid at all. It’s that banks have been subsidised by government by credit guarantees, which undercut the risk-adjusted interest rate to below zero. No interest rate can compete. It’s Gresham’s law in modern form. That’s a *solvency* crisis. The business is ultimately very slowly loss-making. However, we are here today because of a *liquidity* crisis, not solvency. The *liquidity* crisis was caused exactly and only by a couple of appalling Ratesetter management decisions, which they were too slow and arrogant to reverse within the two critical weeks when they had the chance in March. After that, it was always too late. Once they saw that money was flowing out, the one thing they needed to do was raise interest rates immediately high enough to stop it. “Whatever it takes”. 10%, 15%, whatever it takes. How many times have you heard that phrase from the European Central Bank about its QE? It’s *necessary* and it *works*. It can’t work forever to stop a solvency crisis, and people might have that criticism of the ECB, but it does work in the medium term. You have just a couple of days to stop a bank run, or there is no recovery possible. Think about this: if RS had increased interest rates to 10% overnight, from 4%, they’d have been on the hook for 6% of £800m. That’s £36m cash burn in the nine months from March to when they get acquired by Metro, which sounds like a lot of money. But their business was valued at over £200m at one point, and they are now selling for at most £12m, or maybe only £2m. Even if they could have preserved a semblance of being a going concern, and sold for £100m, that’s an extremely good return for £36m in nine months. Instead, they have nothing. Nothing. They burnt their entire business in a dumpster fire within two weeks, because they were too arrogant to change their policies.
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Post by scepticalinvestor on Aug 17, 2020 15:22:43 GMT
I doubt Ratesetter are making much money. Given the unbelievably low figure Metro Bank have paid for Ratesetter I reckon it is pretty likely they were staring down the barrel of insolvency and had no option but to accept whatever they could get for the business. Massive humiliation for Rhydian Lewis and co, regardless of what the PR blurb states.
freefalljunkie Absolutely. From a valuation of £200m in 2017 to being sold for £2.5m cash upfront (most of which would have been eaten up by fees to Lazard who have been working to get RS sold for months) can definitely be put under the column "humiliation". Spare a thought for the corporate investors who have sunk at least £43m into RS over recent years.
Don't get me wrong, I much prefer the lesser evil of RS being taken over than it going into a messy administration. Hopefully the PF will hold up until the legacy Access RYIs are paid out. Given that Metro says it wants to continue to use the RS brand, you would assume that a degree of care will be exerted with regard to maintaining RS' reputation.
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