cb25
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Post by cb25 on Aug 18, 2020 13:52:55 GMT
Responding to point made by agent69 "I assume Universities don't want half full classes, and will therefore accept however many students are needed to fill the lectures."
bernythedolt said "This is correct. A uni lecturer acquaintance has just completed the entry sift for her course and has had to make offers down to grades BBC instead of the usual AAB minimum. The severe reduction in foreign student applicants hasn't helped. BBCs will struggle on her intensive clinical course. Even worse, having already made the offers, this grades u-turn will mean those newly re-graded to the AAB they deserved and expected, who would have qualified for a place after all, have now lost it to someone inferior. Very unfair and another massive foul up."
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Re the student who "have now lost it to someone inferior", surely that one is on the Uni for letting a weak student (who "will struggle on her intensive clinical course") in just for the money.
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Gov UK (PDF) shows 25.2% of marks were awarded A*/A in 2019, compared to 27.6% in 2020 after moderation (now withdrawn), 2.4% up on 2019 and the highest level for 13 years ( schoolsweek)
With the previously rejected teacher assessments now being used, I believe around 37% of marks will be A*/A, 12 up on 2019 ( Guardian)
Whilst many students will be congratulating themselves on being the smartest group of kids, Unis will struggle to admit them( Guardian). Perhaps some of those happy with the outcome can complete this in fewer than 20 words "Huge grade inflation is a good thing because ..." (clue: the answer isn't "it makes us feel happy").
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Post by bernythedolt on Aug 18, 2020 15:15:43 GMT
"surely that one is on the Uni for letting a weak student... in just for the money".
Agreed, but the University has to cover its costs, so needs 100% bums on seats and can only select from the candidates presenting. The fact that that pool of candidates is now being rehashed post-selection is not the University's fault. It does unfortunately mean some of the best candidates have missed out on a place, no matter how good their rehashed grades, and that is a travesty.
I do wonder if HM Gov't might have to declare all university places null & void and re-run the entry process? Isn't that the fairest way forward now? Not sure about the practicalities though. Students will have booked accommodation, purchased books & equipment, etc, etc.
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benaj
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Post by benaj on Aug 18, 2020 15:28:52 GMT
The problem students facing this year were they were forced to move on without proper education and exams.
However, it seems this mess attracts massive attention at the moment. Many other countries have exams delayed or cancelled but not like this.
Bottom line, it is absurd they are awarded exam grades when they were none, but that’s no alternative.
Before the U-turn by Government 1. Are exams getting easier or students are better getting A*, 9% of candidates got A* in 2020 compared, highest since 2010, 7.8% in 2019 2. 316,730 have been accepted as first choice, that’s 2.7% up compared to last year 3. Without the standardisation, there would be a massive jump in grades this year
4. how did Ofqual ended downgraded 39% of grades submitted by teachers? it doesn’t justify increase jump of A* to B grades. In some cases reported by media, they need to appeal urgently but the system won’t cope
5. Could ofqual downgraded the grades without upsetting so many students and affect massive jump in UCAS choices? possibly
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james100
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Post by james100 on Aug 18, 2020 16:31:27 GMT
I think it's going to be even worse for next year's cohort. They've missed over a quarter of the traditional teaching/learning experience (substitute methods varying widely in quality and quantity depending on how wealthy and/or pushy parents/school/self are); have grades which will have to go back to pre-covid distributions (making theirs look a bit rubbish); bags of covid-deferrals at Russell Group universities mopping up the U-turn on grades which couldn't be honored this year due to accommodation/class-size/safety restrictions (so less places and likely higher grade requirements for same courses next year). And to top it off they know the entire Ofqual set up is not fit for purpose. It's going to be horrendous.
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travolta
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Post by travolta on Aug 18, 2020 18:09:54 GMT
No brainer to repeat the year throughout the education system. They would all benefit from learning and retaining something. Gives time for the Universities to sort out their staffing problems too.
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Greenwood2
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Post by Greenwood2 on Aug 18, 2020 19:47:42 GMT
No brainer to repeat the year throughout the education system. They would all benefit from learning and retaining something. Gives time for the Universities to sort out their staffing problems too. And leave a whole university year empty? More generally exam grades are often unfair, students have a bad day or a good day, and the actual questions suit some candidates more than others (I suppose the absolute best candidates will pretty much always do well). Teachers predictions are also not necessarily accurate, some students run under the radar until the exams, and then they shine.
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Mike
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Post by Mike on Aug 18, 2020 20:09:07 GMT
Reduce education at school
Give everyone better marks
Let them all into uni
Make the degree much easier
Require a masters for professional work training
Could have been posted last year. We've been heading down the USA path for a while - in a decade or so we may look back and see the insignificance of a small acceleration due to covid of the inevitable. Same may be said for the high street, cinemas, real-life GPs, etc.
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Post by bracknellboy on Aug 18, 2020 20:40:02 GMT
No brainer to repeat the year throughout the education system. They would all benefit from learning and retaining something. Gives time for the Universities to sort out their staffing problems too. and at the bottom end ? Have a cohort all start education a year later, with them missing out on a year ? Or are we going to rustle up a corresponding cohort of new teachers + additional buildings/ed facilities to accommodate an additional year in the system ?
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travolta
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Post by travolta on Aug 19, 2020 9:37:14 GMT
You really believe that children are actually 'school working' @ home all this time? They are lying in bed till pm and gaming all night. The same for present uni students .Repeat everything. The youngest can toss around at nursery school for an exta year and relearn toilet training.Nursery nurses are paid peanuts so its the path of least expense. (Note (This is the opinion of a jaded exteacher who probably taught most of you).
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Post by bracknellboy on Aug 19, 2020 10:11:05 GMT
You really believe that children are actually 'school working' @ home all this time? They are lying in bed till pm and gaming all night. The same for present uni students .Repeat everything. The youngest can toss around at nursery school for an exta year and relearn toilet training.Nursery nurses are paid peanuts so its the path of least expense. (Note (This is the opinion of a jaded exteacher who probably taught most of you). No I don't. And the disparity in the level of remote teaching offered across the sector is, from what I've understood from friends with children of varying ages, disgraceful. And that isn't all at the govt's doorstep: a lot of that is decisions made by individual schools/heads/teachers.
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Post by investor1925 on Aug 19, 2020 10:27:16 GMT
My two penneth, just for opinions.
I reckon the algorithm was designed to give an overall grading uplift of 1-2% on the 2019 results. Given that the teachers estimates were above this, there was bound to be a reduction in grades awarded across the board. This would inevitably lead to disappointment by many. Next year's gradings will be back to normal (I hope) & a lot of children & schools are going to wonder why they are falling short of the 2020 cohort (they'll all have very short memories)
Now that they are going with the teacher's estimates, the uni's are going to struggle to differentiate between all the "high achieving" grades that they are seeing.
I also think that there are far too many young people going to uni in the first place. I was in the A class of a grammar school & didn't go, I got a job & only did a uni course when I was in my 30's, which my employer paid for, as it was in their interest.
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Steerpike
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Post by Steerpike on Aug 19, 2020 10:44:56 GMT
No I don't. And the disparity in the level of remote teaching offered across the sector is, from what I've understood from friends with children of varying ages, disgraceful. And that isn't all at the govt's doorstep: a lot of that is decisions made by individual schools/heads/teachers. My son is at the local state school and the quality of "teaching" during the lockdown has been very poor and for the most part has been setting assignments once a week and providing no feedback. One of his teachers was independently offering paid for private tutoring until a number of parents complained to the principal that this teacher was doing very little to support students through the school systems.
We have friends that sent their child of a similar age to a local private school and the experience has been much closer to normal schooling with registration and frequent proper teacher student interaction, but in my opinion they have done nothing that the state school could not have done if there had been the will, the discipline, and the organisation.
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cb25
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Post by cb25 on Aug 19, 2020 15:16:13 GMT
Guardian reports "Durham University offers students money to defer entry .. An email to students said those who deferred would be guaranteed college accommodation – which is always in high demand – “and will be provided with a bursary". Clearly going to have a knock-on effect on next year's intake.
Suspect we'll see more offers like this.
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cb25
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Post by cb25 on Aug 20, 2020 9:06:42 GMT
BBC reporting on GCSE results, again showing noticeable grade inflation
"Official results show that 78.8% of GCSEs in England were graded 4 or better – the pass rate under the grading system introduced in 2017. It's an increase of nine percentage points on last year, when 69.9% of pupils achieved the passing grade. At the top grades, there was also an increase, with 27.6% of entries being awarded a 7 or above – equivalent to an A or A* under the old grading system. In 2019, only 21.9% of entries achieved these grades, resulting in an increase of 5.7 percentage points."
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james100
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Post by james100 on Aug 20, 2020 11:24:17 GMT
BBC reporting on GCSE results, again showing noticeable grade inflation
"Official results show that 78.8% of GCSEs in England were graded 4 or better – the pass rate under the grading system introduced in 2017. It's an increase of nine percentage points on last year, when 69.9% of pupils achieved the passing grade. At the top grades, there was also an increase, with 27.6% of entries being awarded a 7 or above – equivalent to an A or A* under the old grading system. In 2019, only 21.9% of entries achieved these grades, resulting in an increase of 5.7 percentage points."
GCSEs have been dumbed down beyond all recognition since they were introduced in 1988 when top grade was awarded to only 8.4% of entries ( source article from 2012). I pity the significant portion of these kids who will no doubt think they have sufficiently robust academic foundations to take any vaguely challenging A-levels with their clutch of "top grades" which in qualitative old money would barely pass as entry requirements. And whilst that can may be kicked through A-level inflation, degree class inflation etc, at the end of the day these people apply for jobs in the real world and the horrible truth emerges.
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