michaelc
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Post by michaelc on Sept 2, 2020 17:40:39 GMT
First of all, terrible situation for him personally and his family/friends/colleagues. Nobody, including Russia, seems yet to dispute Germany's account of there being one of the Novichok agents in his body. I tend to believe this also. Who dunnit? I don't know but probably where the west is likely to point its finger is the likely culprit. However, I'm certainly not convinced it was sanctioned directly from the top although that may indeed be the case. Anyway, what prompted me to write this was just how similar the Russian state broadcaster (RT) coverage was vs the UK's state broadcaster (BBC). Not surprising that the BBC put this at the top of the headlines but so did RT. Definitely differences of emphasis in both articles but actually the level of propaganda seemed to me to be quite similar in both and at a fairly low level. www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-54002880www.rt.com/russia/499702-novichok-nerve-agent-used-to/ |
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corto
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Post by corto on Sept 2, 2020 17:45:02 GMT
conspiracy theory
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Post by bracknellboy on Sept 2, 2020 18:12:22 GMT
Who dunnit? I don't know but probably where the west is likely to point its finger is the likely culprit. However, I'm certainly not convinced it was sanctioned directly from the top although that may indeed be the case.
He has many enemies, namely pretty much the whole of the Russian state apparatus and the oligarchs who rely on its patronage and protection and have got stinking rich through corruption, cronyism, and general fleecing of economic rent from the Russian economy.
Nonetheless, whether it was directly sanctioned or not, I really can't see anyone with the ability to have carried this out to have done so without a strong nod and a wink ultimately emanating from the highest level: to do otherwise would be risking finding themselves on the wrong end of an FSB initiated "accident". Shades of Henry II and Thomas Becket come to mind, with an appropriate variation of "Will no one rid me of this turbulent priest?". (and yes we know that is not an historically confirmed/accurate quotation).
Interesting timing, given how long he has been a thorn in the side of the would be Emperor of Russia: events in Belarus are no doubt considerably concerning His Highness and all who sail with him. It might have seemed timely to try and remove a focal point around which any popular unrest might coalesce in the event of "overspill" from its neighbour and fellow member of the Union State.
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slippery
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Post by slippery on Sept 2, 2020 20:07:32 GMT
"Shades of Henry II and Thomas Becket come to mind, with an appropriate variation of "Will no one rid me of this turbulent priest?". (and yes we know that is not an historically confirmed/accurate quotation)." Interesting comparison, wonder who would be striking the blows should Putin ever feel the need to do penance 
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Post by bracknellboy on Sept 2, 2020 20:39:09 GMT
"Shades of Henry II and Thomas Becket come to mind, with an appropriate variation of "Will no one rid me of this turbulent priest?". (and yes we know that is not an historically confirmed/accurate quotation)." Interesting comparison, wonder who would be striking the blows should Putin ever feel the need to do penance I doubt Putin will ever being the 'penance before god' bit. Bit difficult when you view yourself as the god.
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Sept 5, 2020 14:13:56 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2020 15:49:39 GMT
5 years ago I watched RT every evening to check if my prejudice was unfair. No RT is a clear mouth piece for the Russian State and those like Salmon and Corbyn are just useful idiots who had programmes on it
The BBC is hardly a UK gov mouth piece
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Post by bracknellboy on Sept 6, 2020 6:57:17 GMT
The BBC is hardly a UK gov mouth piece
well if you reside on the side of the govt., its clearly an anti-govt mouth piece. If you reside on the other side, its clearly an anti opposition govt mouth piece. This doesn't change with a change in the govt. I'm in my mid 50's: this has not changed throughout my lifetime.
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michaelc
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Post by michaelc on Sept 22, 2020 17:29:01 GMT
5 years ago I watched RT every evening to check if my prejudice was unfair. No RT is a clear mouth piece for the Russian State and those like Salmon and Corbyn are just useful idiots who had programmes on it
The BBC is hardly a UK gov mouth piece
It funded by national taxation in the form of a levy. It is governed by state appointees: www.bbc.co.uk/bbctrust/who_we_are/trustees/appointment.htmlHow can any intelligent person can really believe it is independent is beyond me. Yes agree completely that RT is the mouth piece for the russian state and like you find it interesting to see what they are saying from time to time. Most large states have them including the USA's Voice of America. My guess is that both VOA and RT are somewhat at arms length although they would never be critical of their governments. I would accept the BBC is likewise somewhat at arms length but ultimately through various management committees and roles, is under the control of our government and is thus not independent and further could be considered a "state broadcaster".
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Post by Deleted on Sept 23, 2020 8:50:34 GMT
"how any intelligent person....."
I guess it depends on the nation and culture from which you come.
If you look back at the last time the UK went to war independantly in the Falklands. The BBC was issued very explicit instructions (openly) as to information that could not be shared as was the independant UK newspapers. This banned information on numbers and divisional military structures but was open on all other actions after they had occured. Journalists were imbeded with the military and daily briefings were provided where journalists of all sides were allowed to be present. Our TVs showed the sinking of UK ships and the Argentinian battlecruiser. Nightly we saw how affective the French made anti-ship missiles were and how badly defended the British ships were against these things.
So I suggest you need to open your imagination... :-)
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Post by df on Sept 23, 2020 12:33:29 GMT
5 years ago I watched RT every evening to check if my prejudice was unfair. No RT is a clear mouth piece for the Russian State and those like Salmon and Corbyn are just useful idiots who had programmes on it
The BBC is hardly a UK gov mouth piece
Yes, Alex Salmond runs a show on RT, but Corbyn..... is this your own fantasy or did you pick it up from daily mail (or one of these dishonest propaganda outlets). Of course RT is a mouthpiece of Russian state, so is BBC a UK government’s mouthpiece. I don’t particularly like RT, but have to give them a credit - they tend to back up their claims by evidence, which BBC has failed to do many times on my watch.
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corto
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Post by corto on Sept 23, 2020 14:09:58 GMT
5 years ago I watched RT every evening to check if my prejudice was unfair. No RT is a clear mouth piece for the Russian State and those like Salmon and Corbyn are just useful idiots who had programmes on it
The BBC is hardly a UK gov mouth piece
Yes, Alex Salmond runs a show on RT, but Corbyn..... is this your own fantasy or did you pick it up from daily mail (or one of these dishonest propaganda outlets). Of course RT is a mouthpiece of Russian state, so is BBC a UK government’s mouthpiece. I don’t particularly like RT, but have to give them a credit - they tend to back up their claims by evidence, which BBC has failed to do many times on my watch. If the BBC is the mouthpiece of the government then they do it quite well. I have no particular problem with them. I thought the mouthpiece is the Telegraph (and all the Murdoch outlets). RT sometimes evokes interesting ideas, sometimes perhaps even background information (who could check). But at first they are an awkward breeding ground for conspiracy theories. Just keep an eye on how often they push even the most obvious conspiracy and fake theories - Bermuda triangle story, cadavers or mutated animals that look like "aliens" (so must be), all the secret things liberals and democrats are doing .. They are also obviously pro white supremacy, anti-LGBT++, misogynist (see their sexy female cage fighters page 2 stories), etc pp I looked into my pot of sourdough starter today - it was full of bacteria, bubbles and slime
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Post by df on Sept 23, 2020 15:00:44 GMT
Yes, Alex Salmond runs a show on RT, but Corbyn..... is this your own fantasy or did you pick it up from daily mail (or one of these dishonest propaganda outlets). Of course RT is a mouthpiece of Russian state, so is BBC a UK government’s mouthpiece. I don’t particularly like RT, but have to give them a credit - they tend to back up their claims by evidence, which BBC has failed to do many times on my watch. If the BBC is the mouthpiece of the government then they do it quite well. I have no particular problem with them. I thought the mouthpiece is the Telegraph (and all the Murdoch outlets). RT sometimes evokes interesting ideas, sometimes perhaps even background information (who could check). But at first they are an awkward breeding ground for conspiracy theories. Just keep an eye on how often they push even the most obvious conspiracy and fake theories - Bermuda triangle story, cadavers or mutated animals that look like "aliens" (so must be), all the secret things liberals and democrats are doing .. They are also obviously pro white supremacy, anti-LGBT++, misogynist (see their sexy female cage fighters page 2 stories), etc pp I looked into my pot of sourdough starter today - it was full of bacteria, bubbles and slime Of course BBC is not as bad as Murdoch propaganda machine, but they still fail on impartiality. As it is funded by licence fees I would expect BBC to be politically impartial. They deliver good educational and entertainment shows, but their involvement in politics is disappointing (imo). I don’t monitor RT closely enough to comment on conspiracy theories, but do recall a lot of anti-racist and anti-xenophobic narative in their news and shows.
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michaelc
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Post by michaelc on Sept 23, 2020 15:22:10 GMT
Yes, Alex Salmond runs a show on RT, but Corbyn..... is this your own fantasy or did you pick it up from daily mail (or one of these dishonest propaganda outlets). Of course RT is a mouthpiece of Russian state, so is BBC a UK government’s mouthpiece. I don’t particularly like RT, but have to give them a credit - they tend to back up their claims by evidence, which BBC has failed to do many times on my watch. If the BBC is the mouthpiece of the government then they do it quite well. I have no particular problem with them. I thought the mouthpiece is the Telegraph (and all the Murdoch outlets). RT sometimes evokes interesting ideas, sometimes perhaps even background information (who could check). But at first they are an awkward breeding ground for conspiracy theories. Just keep an eye on how often they push even the most obvious conspiracy and fake theories - Bermuda triangle story, cadavers or mutated animals that look like "aliens" (so must be), all the secret things liberals and democrats are doing .. They are also obviously pro white supremacy, anti-LGBT++, misogynist (see their sexy female cage fighters page 2 stories), etc pp I looked into my pot of sourdough starter today - it was full of bacteria, bubbles and slime And that is quite representative of how the government views things. In fact, most of the people feel that way which is why they voted putin in. My evidence is only from personal experience but there is no doubt about it. I guess we were like that some decades ago but I'm not old enough to remember. "White supremacy" is way over the top for the average russian but with virtually zero immigrants of african origin most people there are wary and those outside some of the largest cities have probably never seen a black person. That absolutely does NOT mean I agree with that view. Regarding "misogynist" - most people there don't hate women at all. They have similar views to that we had in the 50's and before. ANti-LGBT (what is the ++ ?). Yes most hold those views as we did until not that long ago.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 23, 2020 16:39:44 GMT
5 years ago I watched RT every evening to check if my prejudice was unfair. No RT is a clear mouth piece for the Russian State and those like Salmon and Corbyn are just useful idiots who had programmes on it
The BBC is hardly a UK gov mouth piece
Yes, Alex Salmond runs a show on RT, but Corbyn..... is this your own fantasy or did you pick it up from daily mail (or one of these dishonest propaganda outlets). Of course RT is a mouthpiece of Russian state, so is BBC a UK government’s mouthpiece. I don’t particularly like RT, but have to give them a credit - they tend to back up their claims by evidence, which BBC has failed to do many times on my watch. Independant.
who knew we had a Russian Troll amongst us
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