gmd78
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Post by gmd78 on Sept 16, 2020 7:17:54 GMT
Quote : “But I still think it’s just downright bizarre for Metro to promise other people’s money over which they have no control” : Unquote.
I’ll second that, no point in pussy-footing around, RS investors have been ditched and disregarded. Metro have taken the helm, they’ll steer the ship to all four points of the compass, in any direction they want to. RS investors are now puppets on a string.
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Post by Badly Drawn Stickman on Sept 16, 2020 7:44:37 GMT
Quote : “But I still think it’s just downright bizarre for Metro to promise other people’s money over which they have no control” : Unquote. I’ll second that, no point in pussy-footing around, RS investors have been ditched and disregarded. Metro have taken the helm, they’ll steer the ship to all four points of the compass, in any direction they want to. RS investors are now puppets on a string. Aye, we set sail for uncharted water beneath the jolly roger and in fear of the lash. I might not invest in a parrot or wooden leg just yet though, given reinvestment is mostly optional.
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chris1200
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Post by chris1200 on Sept 16, 2020 8:32:38 GMT
Unless I'm missing something, hasn't "promising other people’s money over which they have no control" been a fairly prominent feature of p2p lending this whole time!? Obviously different platforms have had different models with varying levels of access/being locked-in but... having lending commitments without certainty as to whether your lenders want to part with that money or not isn't exactly new, right?
RS have a certain amount of control over this through turning on/off the RYI taps and the A/P/M auto-reinvestment feature. But it's always been the case that if every investor RYI'd and turned their re-investment settings off (or set them to the highest rate in A/P/M) that RS would've been in serious trouble! So I'm slightly puzzled as to why this is being thrown at Metro Bank as something to be surprised about...?
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Post by herringbone on Sept 16, 2020 9:04:17 GMT
As it's only the secured lending that needs to be funded by RS investors, not as many will be needed. It's easy to assume that because most of the noise on this forum is from people running for the hills, that everyone else is as well, but that ain't necessarily so. I've requested my Access money returned, but not the 1year, and I'm seriously considering putting more in the 1 year, perhaps in the New Year when we see what happens to the interest rate cut. I think having money tied up for no more than 12 months may well be acceptable.
We can differ as to the likelihood of various investor behaviours. But I still think it’s just downright bizarre for Metro to promise other people’s money over which they have no control. If you’re looking to reinvest in the New Year, all the facts will have changed by then, probably more than once, so IMHO bridges and the crossing thereof.Worth pointing out that Metro very first action on acquisition was to stop the 5yr market. The obvious point is that the 1yr RYI was stalled, which means the current reinvestment is less than or equal to the requested lending. It’s unlikely to be exactly equal, so that means they *already* have less lending money than they want for property developers. Shutting the 5yr market redirects that reinvestment to 1yr, allowing them to meet those lending commitments. Apparently this was Metro’s *highest priority* to sort out in the first hour after acquisition. So there’s a thing to ponder, what’s going on that this was such a Defcon 1 issue for them? Exactly, that's why I'm keeping my powder dry for the moment, but I am cautiously optimistic
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Greenwood2
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Post by Greenwood2 on Sept 16, 2020 10:11:36 GMT
Quote : “But I still think it’s just downright bizarre for Metro to promise other people’s money over which they have no control” : Unquote. I’ll second that, no point in pussy-footing around, RS investors have been ditched and disregarded. Metro have taken the helm, they’ll steer the ship to all four points of the compass, in any direction they want to. RS investors are now puppets on a string. Wasn't it RS that took on the development loans, effectively promising lenders would stomp up. Metro have just inherited that position, or not because they take no responsibility for the RS loan book.
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robski
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Post by robski on Sept 16, 2020 11:02:21 GMT
I am not sure the 5 year / 1 year are anything to do with metro
They didnt take over this part its still being managed by RS
I am pretty convinced its RS trying to divert funds from 5 year to 1, 1 year would probably fill the commitments now, but at a higher rate, we know 1 year can spike hard when big chunks need to go out, I suspect this is just the same ploy that was to turn off 5 year lending and to try to force everyone onto APM with its lower rates
As far as needing to raise the capital, I suspect RS either had a backup funder, getting paid a cut for being ready to step in (much like a Lloyds name), or they knew that they had enough discretionary lending that they could turn this off if funds available for lending were too low. Pretty much what I believe they did with COVID, only writing loans for the contracted part, and stopping lending to new business, eg individuals applying for a loan.
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gmd78
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Post by gmd78 on Sept 16, 2020 11:02:53 GMT
True enough, Greenwood2 (with the Captain's permission, as a sailing man, I’ll stick to the nautical analogy) in Metro, we now have a new Captain with RS relegated to 1st Mate and we’re sailing into uncharted waters.
And - btw, as a former 2nd Mate, I would have liked to have been invited into the Ward Room to discuss the grog ration.
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Post by diversifier on Sept 16, 2020 11:55:04 GMT
Unless I'm missing something, hasn't "promising other people’s money over which they have no control" been a fairly prominent feature of p2p lending this whole time!? Obviously different platforms have had different models with varying levels of access/being locked-in but... having lending commitments without certainty as to whether your lenders want to part with that money or not isn't exactly new, right? RS have a certain amount of control over this through turning on/off the RYI taps and the A/P/M auto-reinvestment feature. But it's always been the case that if every investor RYI'd and turned their re-investment settings off (or set them to the highest rate in A/P/M) that RS would've been in serious trouble! So I'm slightly puzzled as to why this is being thrown at Metro Bank as something to be surprised about...? I sort of agree with the “promising other people’s money” as being a prominent feature of P2P. But look how careful Ratesetter have always been, when making official statements and Ts and Cs about RYI. They hedge in the small print, that it’s subject to “market conditions”. Metro have not qualified their statement at all, on what they will do if market conditions do *not* permit. Will they renege on those lending commitments? Subsidise the remainder from their own lending coffers? Change the Ts and Cs to force reinvestment on the 1yr just like APM? Reduce interest rates to zero, using the excess to fund lending? Who knows. But I doubt it will be either of the first two, which means the buck is going to stop with investors. The difference between Metro and RS, is that nobody could force RS to honour contractual lending commitments, because they would just go insolvent, leaving nobody to pursue for damages. Metro won’t renege like that, if things go south, which throws the onus onto investors. Have you seen the text of these “lending commitments” that we are apparently committed to? I haven’t.
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Greenwood2
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Post by Greenwood2 on Sept 16, 2020 13:15:09 GMT
Unless I'm missing something, hasn't "promising other people’s money over which they have no control" been a fairly prominent feature of p2p lending this whole time!? Obviously different platforms have had different models with varying levels of access/being locked-in but... having lending commitments without certainty as to whether your lenders want to part with that money or not isn't exactly new, right? RS have a certain amount of control over this through turning on/off the RYI taps and the A/P/M auto-reinvestment feature. But it's always been the case that if every investor RYI'd and turned their re-investment settings off (or set them to the highest rate in A/P/M) that RS would've been in serious trouble! So I'm slightly puzzled as to why this is being thrown at Metro Bank as something to be surprised about...? I sort of agree with the “promising other people’s money” as being a prominent feature of P2P. But look how careful Ratesetter have always been, when making official statements and Ts and Cs about RYI. They hedge in the small print, that it’s subject to “market conditions”. Metro have not qualified their statement at all, on what they will do if market conditions do *not* permit. Will they renege on those lending commitments? Subsidise the remainder from their own lending coffers? Change the Ts and Cs to force reinvestment on the 1yr just like APM? Reduce interest rates to zero, using the excess to fund lending? Who knows. But I doubt it will be either of the first two, which means the buck is going to stop with investors. The difference between Metro and RS, is that nobody could force RS to honour contractual lending commitments, because they would just go insolvent, leaving nobody to pursue for damages. Metro won’t renege like that, if things go south, which throws the onus onto investors. Have you seen the text of these “lending commitments” that we are apparently committed to? I haven’t. As has been said Metro are taking no responsibility for the RS loan book, it continues under the RS T&Cs. RS have contractual lending obligations, if RS couldn't fulfil those it's possible Metro would fund them as a one off. Lenders don't have any future lending obligations, we can turn re-lending off on the 1 year and set rates high so we don't lend on the other markets, then withdraw funds as they are returned. I don't think RS could change their T&Cs such that lenders are forced to re-lend, I would hope the FCA would take a dim view of that. There will probably be enough lenders who leave their accounts rolling over to fund the much smaller amount of borrowing anyway.
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jane
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Post by jane on Sept 17, 2020 9:24:49 GMT
RS is starting to sound a lot like Lendy.
Wonder how long it will be before a developer decides to sue all of us for not lending them more money.
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beagle
Investor in ratesetter, funding circle, lendy (lesson learnt) and AC
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Post by beagle on Sept 17, 2020 10:55:16 GMT
RS is starting to sound a lot like Lendy. Wonder how long it will be before a developer decides to sue all of us for not lending them more money. they are not lending them more money - it is the same money but in tranches... if you do not allow the developer to finish the work - it is worthless and so capital is more at risk. you need them to do this. This is not a lendy operation. also - yes they can force the lending as this is what happens in A/P/M and they just enable the rates to reach a loss making position but. get real
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elliotn
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Post by elliotn on Sept 17, 2020 11:37:01 GMT
Here is a copy & paste of the RNS (well a promise is a promise  ):-
Completion of Acquisition
Mon 14 Sep 2020 17:48
RNS Number : 9564Y
Metro Bank PLC
14 September 2020
14 September 2020
Legal Entity Identifier: 213800X5WU57YL9GPK89
METRO BANK PLC
Completion of Acquisition
14 September 2020: Further to the announcement on 3 August 2020, Metro Bank PLC (the "Company") is pleased to announce that all necessary regulatory and shareholder approvals have now been received and the acquisition of Retail Money Market LTD ("RateSetter") has completed.
ENDS
Was it possible to add this expected confirmation to one of the other Metro/RS threads?
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coogaruk
Hello everyone! Anyone remember me?
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Post by coogaruk on Sept 17, 2020 14:09:27 GMT
Was it possible to add this expected confirmation to one of the other Metro/RS threads? (Geez! There's always one, isn't there?)
Yes but many readers of this forum would probably have missed it
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jane
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Post by jane on Sept 17, 2020 14:57:10 GMT
Was it possible to add this expected confirmation to one of the other Metro/RS threads? This thread seems the most logical place for it to me.
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):-