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Post by Ace on Oct 8, 2020 9:30:41 GMT
A certain saying involving backsides and elbows springs to mind!
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beagle
Investor in ratesetter, funding circle, lendy (lesson learnt) and AC
Posts: 670
Likes: 322
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Post by beagle on Oct 8, 2020 9:40:55 GMT
Unbelievable. Do they know what the're doing? This does mean some of my cash will stay with them instead of being run down but U turns do not inspire confidence in the management board. other than enabling more RYI it does not change anything anyway.
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up
Posts: 59 
Likes: 62
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Post by up on Oct 8, 2020 10:49:57 GMT
So this is just about collecting 1.5% release fees on as many of the 5Y loans they can recycle. It is surprising how many passively continue to reinvest at MarketRate - a double win for RS on releases: lower rate and the fee.
If the 5Y is to remain open I share two flaws with MarketRate in the legacy markets:
Matching activity satisfying release requests does not count toward MarketRate calculation - hence the 5Y MR is flat at 4.3% for a long time. Clearly they currently limit 5Y RYI matching only upto 6.0% - but still every day the weighted average is above 4.3 - say about 4.6% and that figure would soon rise due feedback were the MR calculation to reflect actual trades. In the 1Y there are some new loans (though it's suspicious if those are refinance at term of loans unable to repay instead of default/provision-funding - though this only a suspicion with seeing conveniently higher borrowers appearing on occasional days when there are 1Y repayments).
Eventually as the remaining 5Y loan terms get shorter they can justify re-matching at above 6.0% to pick up the fees against the current £600k waiting a long time to match above 6.0.
In the 1Y there is a separate flaw - since a long time MR reinvestment orders and matching are actually below the advertised MR, at times by 0.2% - now 0.1% (see currently 1000+ orders at 4.7% with ratetrends showing 4.8% for months). Maybe it is just that the reported ratetrend figures are wrong. I suspect this goes back to the move to 30day MR averaging - over 18 months. RS spent more than 7 months failing to investigate this including as a complaint but never acknowledged nor offered a coherent explanation.
Probably few here invest at MR. FWIW I doubt Ratesetter cynically arranged either of the above but I do think they could be more transparent and at least acknowledge demonstrable flaw in the implementation. Had they wished they could have manipulated the MR even lower simply by continuing to allow the odd small loan go through on 5Y - they did not. Maybe today's mail even means they intend to put new borrower loans through the 5Y and it is not just about harvesting release fees.
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beagle
Investor in ratesetter, funding circle, lendy (lesson learnt) and AC
Posts: 670
Likes: 322
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Post by beagle on Oct 8, 2020 13:22:32 GMT
So this is just about collecting 1.5% release fees on as many of the 5Y loans they can recycle. It is surprising how many passively continue to reinvest at MarketRate - a double win for RS on releases: lower rate and the fee. If the 5Y is to remain open I share two flaws with MarketRate in the legacy markets: Matching activity satisfying release requests does not count toward MarketRate calculation - hence the 5Y MR is flat at 4.3% for a long time. Clearly they currently limit 5Y RYI matching only upto 6.0% - but still every day the weighted average is above 4.3 - say about 4.6% and that figure would soon rise due feedback were the MR calculation to reflect actual trades. In the 1Y there are some new loans (though it's suspicious if those are refinance at term of loans unable to repay instead of default/provision-funding - though this only a suspicion with seeing conveniently higher borrowers appearing on occasional days when there are 1Y repayments). Eventually as the remaining 5Y loan terms get shorter they can justify re-matching at above 6.0% to pick up the fees against the current £600k waiting a long time to match above 6.0. In the 1Y there is a separate flaw - since a long time MR reinvestment orders and matching are actually below the advertised MR, at times by 0.2% - now 0.1% (see currently 1000+ orders at 4.7% with ratetrends showing 4.8% for months). Maybe it is just that the reported ratetrend figures are wrong. I suspect this goes back to the move to 30day MR averaging - over 18 months. RS spent more than 7 months failing to investigate this including as a complaint but never acknowledged nor offered a coherent explanation. Probably few here invest at MR. FWIW I doubt Ratesetter cynically arranged either of the above but I do think they could be more transparent and at least acknowledge demonstrable flaw in the implementation. Had they wished they could have manipulated the MR even lower simply by continuing to allow the odd small loan go through on 5Y - they did not. Maybe today's mail even means they intend to put new borrower loans through the 5Y and it is not just about harvesting release fees. it is not about release fees as they stopped releases to allow us to cancel them
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coogaruk
Hello everyone! Anyone remember me?
Posts: 706
Likes: 464
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Post by coogaruk on Oct 8, 2020 13:46:01 GMT
I smell a rat. Apart from the usual "following feedback from investors" nonsense, my observations are as follows:
Should we decide to continue to reinvest in 5yr, it will only be into the existing loan book and indeed one might even pick up defaulted loans and have to wait until the end of the loan term before being reimbursed by the PF (assuming it hasn't run dry by then).
Any opportunity to also partake in new consumer loans written by Metro Bank might have instilled a tad more confidence going forward. (there you go RS, some feedback for you to maybe act upon - Too late now though, cos I reckon I'm on to you!)
Given RS's track record over the past two years or so, this on the surface at least appears to be the latest in a long line of 'developments' designed to benefit the company in some way rather than the investors.
Suddenly I am more inclined to RYI than run-off.
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up
Posts: 59
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Post by up on Oct 8, 2020 14:49:01 GMT
it is not about release fees as they stopped releases to allow us to cancel them If there are no new borrower loans then all matching in the 5Y will be against somebody else's release on which RateSetter collect the 1.5% release fee. Maybe some (re)investing from Monday will even subsequently RYI so they might collect repeated fees against the existing 5Y loan book as it runs down. All revenue RateSetter gains by keeping the market "open" (if there are not new borrower loans - tbc).
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beagle
Investor in ratesetter, funding circle, lendy (lesson learnt) and AC
Posts: 670
Likes: 322
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Post by beagle on Oct 8, 2020 14:51:39 GMT
it is not about release fees as they stopped releases to allow us to cancel them If there are no new borrower loans then all matching in the 5Y will be against somebody else's release on which RateSetter collect the 1.5% release fee. Maybe some (re)investing from Monday will even subsequently RYI so they might collect repeated fees against the existing 5Y loan book as it runs down. All revenue RateSetter gains by keeping the market "open" (if there are not new borrower loans - tbc). of course or you can set to holding and obtain that way. the fee was always there to be fair
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up
Posts: 59
Likes: 62
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Post by up on Oct 8, 2020 14:59:50 GMT
So this is just about collecting 1.5% release fees on as many of the 5Y loans they can recycle. It is surprising how many passively continue to reinvest at MarketRate - a double win for RS on releases: lower rate and the fee. If the 5Y is to remain open I share two flaws with MarketRate in the legacy markets: Matching activity satisfying release requests does not count toward MarketRate calculation - hence the 5Y MR is flat at 4.3% for a long time. Clearly they currently limit 5Y RYI matching only upto 6.0% - but still every day the weighted average is above 4.3 - say about 4.6% and that figure would soon rise due feedback were the MR calculation to reflect actual trades. In the 1Y there are some new loans (though it's suspicious if those are refinance at term of loans unable to repay instead of default/provision-funding - though this only a suspicion with seeing conveniently higher borrowers appearing on occasional days when there are 1Y repayments). Eventually as the remaining 5Y loan terms get shorter they can justify re-matching at above 6.0% to pick up the fees against the current £600k waiting a long time to match above 6.0. In the 1Y there is a separate flaw - since a long time MR reinvestment orders and matching are actually below the advertised MR, at times by 0.2% - now 0.1% (see currently 1000+ orders at 4.7% with ratetrends showing 4.8% for months). Maybe it is just that the reported ratetrend figures are wrong. I suspect this goes back to the move to 30day MR averaging - over 18 months. RS spent more than 7 months failing to investigate this including as a complaint but never acknowledged nor offered a coherent explanation. Probably few here invest at MR. FWIW I doubt Ratesetter cynically arranged either of the above but I do think they could be more transparent and at least acknowledge demonstrable flaw in the implementation. Had they wished they could have manipulated the MR even lower simply by continuing to allow the odd small loan go through on 5Y - they did not. Maybe today's mail even means they intend to put new borrower loans through the 5Y and it is not just about harvesting release fees. For info Ratesetter confirmed there will be no new loans - it will only be recycling of existing via releases - and claim new loans were being underwritten until the takeover completed.
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coogaruk
Hello everyone! Anyone remember me?
Posts: 706
Likes: 464
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Post by coogaruk on Oct 11, 2020 15:43:32 GMT
Suddenly I am more inclined to RYI than run-off.
Hang on a moment. Having said that, doesn't the forthcoming change to how the PF will operate from 29th October change things back in favour of a run-off going forward?
Repayments for my defaulted loans will be met until they are subsequently picked up by unsuspecting reinvestors. Or am I missing something, apart from the obvious possibility of further IR cuts or a capital haircut?
RS has certainly become the thinking man's platform!
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Post by ruralres66 on Oct 11, 2020 20:43:16 GMT
For me the announcement makes little difference. Due to doubts about the provision fund (I did not envisage it could avoid a hair cut even with a mild recession) and transparency around it (most notably the failure of RS to have an independent audit of the PF, albeit 3 years ago they did say it was on the to do list), I have been running down my 5 year investment since May 2016. I have now had well over 99% returned and most of what remains is due to repay before the end of this year. Thus I see little point in changing strategy. I have however made a very decent profit on my investment since 2013 when I first invested, but I feel now RS is not the investment product for me. I wish others well what ever they decide. W35I am in a similar position with last RYI ( 1 Year) about to be released.
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coogaruk
Hello everyone! Anyone remember me?
Posts: 706
Likes: 464
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Post by coogaruk on Oct 12, 2020 19:16:33 GMT
Suddenly I am more inclined to RYI than run-off.
Hang on a moment. Having said that, doesn't the forthcoming change to how the PF will operate from 29th October change things back in favour of a run-off going forward? My appetite for risk just got the better of me. RYIs cancelled.
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Post by Ace on Oct 12, 2020 19:28:02 GMT
Hang on a moment. Having said that, doesn't the forthcoming change to how the PF will operate from 29th October change things back in favour of a run-off going forward? My appetite for risk just got the better of me. RYIs cancelled. That'll explain the £1.5 million increase in released requests today then.
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coogaruk
Hello everyone! Anyone remember me?
Posts: 706
Likes: 464
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Post by coogaruk on Oct 13, 2020 11:53:41 GMT
My appetite for risk just got the better of me. RYIs cancelled. That'll explain the £1.5 million increase in released requests today then. LOL I play a very, VERY small part!
Just as I was in danger of getting my money back too.
M'Lady's RYIs (even smaller than mine) remain very much in place, however. She is still adamant she wants out.
I will keep things under constant review. In the meantime, reinvestors can make the most of my continuing boosting of the PF 
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beagle
Investor in ratesetter, funding circle, lendy (lesson learnt) and AC
Posts: 670
Likes: 322
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Post by beagle on Oct 13, 2020 13:37:55 GMT
That'll explain the £1.5 million increase in released requests today then. LOL I play a very, VERY small part!
Just as I was in danger of getting my money back too.
M'Lady's RYIs (even smaller than mine) remain very much in place, however. She is still adamant she wants out.
I will keep things under constant review. In the meantime, reinvestors can make the most of my continuing boosting of the PF I've pulled 1 mil out so far. I'm keeping the rest in and going to see what happens my exit funds are in property now
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Post by df on Oct 13, 2020 17:08:05 GMT
That'll explain the £1.5 million increase in released requests today then. LOL I play a very, VERY small part!
Just as I was in danger of getting my money back too.
M'Lady's RYIs (even smaller than mine) remain very much in place, however. She is still adamant she wants out.
I will keep things under constant review. In the meantime, reinvestors can make the most of my continuing boosting of the PF Good luck  It puzzles me though why would anyone reinvest their returns back to RS accounts, what's the rationale behind it?
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It puzzles me though why would anyone reinvest their returns back to RS accounts, what's the rationale behind it?