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Post by captainconfident on Aug 4, 2022 11:22:12 GMT
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Post by bernythedolt on Aug 4, 2022 12:55:07 GMT
Leaving aside the UK's apparent Brexit-induced starvation and empty shelves (has the author compared old photos and seen how much fat we've all put on these past decades?), I'll take your bait on the question of spiralling inflation. Some of the Baltic EU members are now around 20%, eg. Estonia 22%, Lithuania 20.5%. "The current rate of inflation in the EU is higher than at any other time" Close neighbours Ireland 9.6%, Netherlands 9.9%. The EU27 average stands at 9.6%. The UK at 9.4% doesn't immediately stand out.
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Post by captainconfident on Aug 4, 2022 13:26:11 GMT
Leaving aside the UK's apparent Brexit-induced starvation and empty shelves (has the author compared old photos and seen how much fat we've all put on these past decades?), I'll take your bait on the question of spiralling inflation. Some of the Baltic EU members are now around 20%, eg. Estonia 22%, Lithuania 20.5%. "The current rate of inflation in the EU is higher than at any other time" Close neighbours Ireland 9.6%, Netherlands 9.9%. The EU27 average stands at 9.6%. The UK at 9.4% doesn't immediately stand out. Fir enough and thanks! That's one of the ten points addressed. I would comment that the UK has had to rack up interest rates to 1.75 compared to the EU's 0.5, and still there are warnings that the UK is shortly headed for 15% inflation. Inflation of course comes from a number of specific pressures, and how larger pay rises and energy subsidies handed out by each individual country etc, aside from the UK's Brexit inflation dividend. I probably shouldn't post this sort of thing, we've been over and over it and we all know each other's positions. On the previous page's commentary, what is missing is that to get in and out of the EU, you Brit passport holders need your passport examined by the Frenchman for your entry stamps, and then stamping of your passport, aside from putting it in their scanner to see if you are a terrorist. So of course the operation takes longer per person and given the very few kiosks at Dover, only adequate for the pre-Brexit quick scan, the queues are a direct effect of Brexit and P&O's diabolical service. 12 hours, it took me! Bleedin boat broke down & we had to be unloaded! They really are all east-asian crew! Poor buggers knew less than we did about what was going on!
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Post by bernythedolt on Aug 4, 2022 13:36:46 GMT
Leaving aside the UK's apparent Brexit-induced starvation and empty shelves (has the author compared old photos and seen how much fat we've all put on these past decades?), I'll take your bait on the question of spiralling inflation. Some of the Baltic EU members are now around 20%, eg. Estonia 22%, Lithuania 20.5%. "The current rate of inflation in the EU is higher than at any other time" Close neighbours Ireland 9.6%, Netherlands 9.9%. The EU27 average stands at 9.6%. The UK at 9.4% doesn't immediately stand out. Fir enough and thanks! That's one of the ten points addressed. I would comment that the UK has had to rack up interest rates to 1.75 compared to the EU's 0.5, and still there are warnings that the UK is shortly headed for 15% inflation. Inflation of course comes from a number of specific pressures, and how larger pay rises and energy subsidies handed out by each individual country etc, aside from the UK's Brexit inflation dividend. I probably shouldn't post this sort of thing, we've been over and over it and we all know each other's positions. On the previous page's commentary, what is missing is that to get in and out of the EU, you Brit passport holders need your passport examined by the Frenchman for your entry stamps, and then stamping of your passport, aside from putting it in their scanner to see if you are a terrorist. So of course the operation takes longer per person and given the very few kiosks at Dover, only adequate for the pre-Brexit quick scan, the queues are a direct effect of Brexit and P&O's diabolical service. 12 hours, it took me! Bleedin boat broke down & we had to be unloaded! They really are all east-asian crew! Poor buggers knew less than we did about what was going on! P&O Ferry breakdown... Dubai owned, with an Asian crew. Who will be first to blame Brexit? Come on now, you know you want to... 😁
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Steerpike
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Post by Steerpike on Aug 4, 2022 13:42:36 GMT
After more than 150 years some in the Deep South are still fighting the American Civil War so I suppose that six years isn't all that long and we can expect at least 100 years more of this.
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Post by captainconfident on Aug 4, 2022 13:56:45 GMT
After more than 150 years some in the Deep South are still fighting the American Civil War so I suppose that six years isn't all that long and we can expect at least 100 years more of this. Oh not at all. We can simply do what is in our long term best interest and rejoin the EU. End of debate. Until we do so, Brexit will continue to be discussed like Climate Change. In the year 2000 there was Al Gore and his scientists with their graphs saying, the long term damage will just keep mounting. And the deniers were all over the media saying, No! Look at the weather today! It's still quite tolerable!
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IFISAcava
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Post by IFISAcava on Aug 4, 2022 14:02:09 GMT
After more than 150 years some in the Deep South are still fighting the American Civil War so I suppose that six years isn't all that long and we can expect at least 100 years more of this. Well after Leavers lost the first EU referendum, they kept going for 40+ years, so I think it only fair to give Remainers a similar length of time before suggesting they should quieten down a bit.
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michaelc
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Post by michaelc on Aug 4, 2022 14:38:13 GMT
To go back to 2016, I think what the issue boils down to is an unfortunate choice. Do we want to be part of a very expensive club who is likely to move to being one nation state in due course. Or do we want to be treated badly by them.
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registerme
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Post by registerme on Aug 4, 2022 14:56:57 GMT
I would comment that the UK has had to rack up interest rates to 1.75 compared to the EU's 0.5 That's actually one criticism of the EU (more specifically the Eurozone) that's valid and that I agree with. The ECB is going to have a very difficult time balancing the monetary / interest rate environment for eg Italy at one extreme and Germany / the Netherlands at the other. As a result it's entirely possible that we'll see another "existential Eurozone crisis" of one form or another over the next year or so. Monetary union without political union inherently suffers from these stresses and strains. The collective EU establishment should have either been up front about this, or been up front about the move to an EU super-state. Had they been up front about the move to an EU super-state, and set out a roadmap including provision for referendums etc, I would have been perfectly happy with it.
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keitha
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Post by keitha on Aug 4, 2022 16:14:42 GMT
but if the EU gives us the right to referenda, but we'd get the treatment the Irish did when they voted no they were told they hadn't understood the question and to vote again
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agent69
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Post by agent69 on Aug 4, 2022 17:12:14 GMT
After more than 150 years some in the Deep South are still fighting the American Civil War so I suppose that six years isn't all that long and we can expect at least 100 years more of this. Oh not at all. We can simply do what is in our long term best interest and rejoin the EU. End of debate. Until we do so, Brexit will continue to be discussed like Climate Change. In the year 2000 there was Al Gore and his scientists with their graphs saying, the long term damage will just keep mounting. And the deniers were all over the media saying, No! Look at the weather today! It's still quite tolerable! Is that following a further referendum, or do you have a veto over the 17m people that voted leave? it wouldn't be the end of the debate, just the start of a different debate (and probably riots on the streets).
Neither of the main parties are committed to a further referendum so you just need to forget about it and move on.
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agent69
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Post by agent69 on Aug 4, 2022 17:16:01 GMT
After more than 150 years some in the Deep South are still fighting the American Civil War so I suppose that six years isn't all that long and we can expect at least 100 years more of this. Well after Leavers lost the first EU referendum, they kept going for 40+ years, so I think it only fair to give Remainers a similar length of time before suggesting they should quieten down a bit. If we were members of the EU for 40 years before a referendum on remaining in, wouldn't it be fair to stay out of the EU for 40years before another rerefendum on rejoining?
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Post by captainconfident on Aug 4, 2022 17:34:45 GMT
Why not take a punt on refuting another of these Brexit disasters? It's the economy stupid. That's why we will rejoin in the next few years.
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ilmoro
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Post by ilmoro on Aug 4, 2022 18:12:17 GMT
Why not take a punt on refuting another of these Brexit disasters? It's the economy stupid. That's why we will rejoin in the next few years. The trouble is it isnt ... at least not definitively ... plenty of other competing explanations, Covid, global supply crunch, energy crisis, administrative delays, (the French  ) etc. Unfortunately the G doesnt give any sources for its economic statements but a quick google doesnt seem to throw up the numbers on growth they are quoting. But then growth is difficult as the UK calculates it differently in relation to the public sector which throws out distortions. (AIUI The closure of schools/public sector was one of the reasons UK growth dipped so much in Covid) Exports to the EU are at a record high ... mainly due to fuel as we supply LNG as the EU hasnt got the terminal capacity The point about agri workers is vague ... they appear to have workers just not the E Euro ones ... why? Is it because wages are higher in Poland etc so they work isnt attractive? Fish - www.devonlive.com/news/devon-news/brixham-defies-brexit-covid-storm-6446059Delays - been discussed, Dover & the roads appear to be operating normally 5-10 year cycle to really understand the picture ... given that neither major party advocates it, probably need that long for a policy change ... it wont be to rejoin the EU, it might be to join the SM via the EEA but then who know what existential crisis the EU will go through in the meantime.
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Post by captainconfident on Aug 4, 2022 18:21:48 GMT
ilmoro, thanks for taking the time to do that analysis. Indeed Brexit effects are masked in a myriad of other facets of international... weather. I won't labour any of these points as it can lead to going round in circles. But Labour is a point I should make (Boo - get off!) What Starmer thinks he's doing with his wooly Brexit stance is anyone's guess. I can only think it is the result of some balancing act to do with winning back lost voters than the economic future of the country. What the UK needs, what was indeed discussed as ideal by some 2016 Brexit campaigners, is a cake and eat it relationship with the EU like Switzerland has. The open goal for a Labour Party with the best interests of the country at heart would be membership of the customs union and a bespoke Single Market agreement. I think that would also end this endless thread. But instead "Make Brexit Work" is meaningless in the mishmash that Starmer came up with.
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) etc.