agent69
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Post by agent69 on Dec 5, 2020 18:34:57 GMT
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michaelc
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Post by michaelc on Dec 7, 2020 17:25:20 GMT
You barely need to click the link although I did to know everything about the story. Funny to think I used to enjoy reading the Independent when it first came out all those years ago. A real shame they have strayed so far from their founding ethos of being independent.
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mrk
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Post by mrk on Dec 7, 2020 17:55:06 GMT
You barely need to click the link although I did to know everything about the story. Funny to think I used to enjoy reading the Independent when it first came out all those years ago. A real shame they have strayed so far from their founding ethos of being independent. Uh? The link is to inews, which is owned by DMG Media, also owners of the Daily Mail. That's not The Independent, which incidentally is owned by Boris' friend Lebedev.
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michaelc
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Post by michaelc on Dec 7, 2020 19:05:05 GMT
You barely need to click the link although I did to know everything about the story. Funny to think I used to enjoy reading the Independent when it first came out all those years ago. A real shame they have strayed so far from their founding ethos of being independent. Uh? The link is to inews, which is owned by DMG Media, also owners of the Daily Mail. That's not The Independent, which incidentally is owned by Boris' friend Lebedev. Yes since barely a year ago. It started as a sister paper to the Indy.
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registerme
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Post by registerme on Dec 8, 2020 13:52:08 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2020 14:40:00 GMT
Sorry, I refuse to believe it. What can the Food and Drink federation possibly know about supplying food and drink? We're so fed up of these so-called experts
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michaelc
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Post by michaelc on Dec 8, 2020 16:24:06 GMT
Of course any shortages will be entirely down to remainer panic buying.
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Post by captainconfident on Dec 8, 2020 17:33:58 GMT
Of course any shortages will be entirely down to remainer panic buying. michaelc, may I ask you a sincere question - when you voted to leave, were you voting for a complete break from any direct relations with the EU, total sovereignty approach where Britain sets its own trade standards and insists that our trading partners accept them, making any trade relationship with the EU very barriered, or did you expect a less impeded trade relationship with the EU, like staying in the single market as outlined by leading Brexit fan Danial Hannon here:- www.youtube.com/watch?v=zzykce4oxII&feature=youtu.be&t=308Or Liam Fox's during the referendum advocated staying in a customs union as discussed here:- leave.eu/customs-union-approach/?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2020 17:54:10 GMT
Of course any shortages will be entirely down to remainer panic buying. Yep, the shortages will clearly be remainers fault for needing to eat. Damn them and their functioning metabolisms.
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michaelc
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Post by michaelc on Dec 8, 2020 18:03:01 GMT
Of course any shortages will be entirely down to remainer panic buying. michaelc , may I ask you a sincere question - when you voted to leave, were you voting for a complete break from any direct relations with the EU, total sovereignty approach where Britain sets its own trade standards and insists that our trading partners accept them, making any trade relationship with the EU very barriered, or did you expect a less impeded trade relationship with the EU, like staying in the single market as outlined by leading Brexit fan Danial Hannon here:- www.youtube.com/watch?v=zzykce4oxII&feature=youtu.be&t=308Or Liam Fox's during the referendum advocated staying in a customs union as discussed here:- leave.eu/customs-union-approach/? Yep no problem. Not many others around these parts willing to support Leave. If I get a torrent of ridicule or as unfriendly as possible whilst staying within the rules of the board I shan't engage further. I can handle one or two bad apples but not a whole basket full Clearly I voted to leave the EU. The type of of "brexit" wasn't on the ballot and as I recall I didn't mind any kind of brexit so long as we left the EU. Thats all I voted for. I was actually in two minds seeing a lot of benefit of a partnership with our neighboring countries. I just didn't like and don't like the EU institutions. I have very close family in both the commission and the parliament (not elected) which helped inform my decision but the final straw was my very senior boss at the time suggesting how the employees might vote - he was american but in charge of all UK employees. It may have been a mistake - I hope not and time will tell. Either way, the EU absolutely should not make it difficult for members to leave. That is what is happening now. They shouldn't remain together based on fear of leaving. Member states should actively want to be members. But this is not about changing the institutions from within- its too late for that now! But really in all this mess, the biggest problem and the one that really got me excited about it all was when a group of clever people tried to fiddle with a free and fair referendum. (As free and fair as any other election in this country which isn't without issues but is considered good enough). It really shocked me that so many of former friends (and some current) colleagues etc convinced themselves that their "right" version of European relations is more important than what some idiots and thickies voted for - i.e they must believe the issue at hand was more important than democracy itself. In fact it got me so fired up, I joined a political party just for the purpose of deposing our MP (which he duly was).
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Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2020 18:20:26 GMT
It may have been a mistake - I hope not and time will tell. Either way, the EU absolutely should not make it difficult for members to leave. That is what is happening now. Hahahahaha. Of course that is what is happening now. The UK has gone from being a member to being a competitor. This is *EXACTLY* what you voted for. Now the EU is enforcing its own interests, and is doing a rather good job of forcing jobs and capital out of the UK and into the EU. All those big companies who HQ'd in the UK for easy access to the EU now have to seriously re-evaluate their location. Your vote has put the UK in a weak position where it is easily bullied by larger economic blocs. That is the reality.
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Dec 8, 2020 18:26:46 GMT
Clearly I voted to leave the EU. The type of of "brexit" wasn't on the ballot and as I recall I didn't mind any kind of brexit so long as we left the EU. Thats all I voted for. So "no deal", WTO terms, hard border for NI - you found the prospect of those all perfectly acceptable? And you haven't changed your mind on that? I'm really not sure it is. We have already left. That is done, complete. What is being discussed now is the shape of the ongoing relationship. The sticking points are simple... The UK wants favourable access to the single market, but does not want regulatory compliance over state aid subsidies. The ridiculous thing is that the UK-Japan trade deal already commits the UK to stricter state aid regulation than the EU discussions, and the UK has never taken advantage of what was allowed. The UK wants favourable access to fisheries exports, but does not want to play nicely over waters access and quotas. www.bbc.co.uk/news/46401558The ridiculous thing is that fishing is such a pathetically tiny part of the economy. It simply does not work like that. Either play by the same rules, or get the same access as others who do not. You want the ultimate irony...? "Britain's latest state-of-the-art trawler", Kirkella, is owned and operated by a British company, UK Fisheries Ltd. ukfisheries.net/kirkella-trawlerIt was launched by Princess Anne to much fanfare, just last year... The first trawler to land fish in Hull for a decade! Huzzah! It lands 8% of the UK's cod and haddock! www.hulldailymail.co.uk/news/business/kirkella-trawler-poses-london-ahead-2789986A landmark moment! www.hulldailymail.co.uk/news/business/fish-being-landed-hull-first-2016086Oh, wait... bylinetimes.com/2020/12/08/britains-cod-awful-fishing-fiasco-as-52-million-trawler-sits-idle/The UK can't agree quotas with Norway - which is outside the CFP... As a direct result, Kirkella has had to be mothballed. find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/05219340/officersOf the four current directors of UK Fisheries Ltd, the CEO who did all the press quotes is the only one who is British. One is Icelandic nationality but German resident, and two are Dutch nationals and resident. UK Fisheries Ltd is 50% owned by a Dutch company, Tory BV... www.dnb.com/business-directory/company-profiles.tory_bv.2bb43bb846c853db1e38332e59a6dc5d.html...and 50% owned by Onward Fishing Company Ltd, a British company! Huzzah! find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/00069212/officersBut that's a shell - and both of the current directors are Icelandic, one of them the same German-resident as UKFL. And that's because OFCL is 100% owned by an Icelandic company, Samherji HF www.samherji.is/en
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registerme
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Post by registerme on Dec 8, 2020 18:52:48 GMT
michaelc , may I ask you a sincere question - when you voted to leave, were you voting for a complete break from any direct relations with the EU, total sovereignty approach where Britain sets its own trade standards and insists that our trading partners accept them, making any trade relationship with the EU very barriered, or did you expect a less impeded trade relationship with the EU, like staying in the single market as outlined by leading Brexit fan Danial Hannon here:- www.youtube.com/watch?v=zzykce4oxII&feature=youtu.be&t=308Or Liam Fox's during the referendum advocated staying in a customs union as discussed here:- leave.eu/customs-union-approach/? Yep no problem. Not many others around these parts willing to support Leave. If I get a torrent of ridicule or as unfriendly as possible whilst staying within the rules of the board I shan't engage further. I can handle one or two bad apples but not a whole basket full Clearly I voted to leave the EU. The type of of "brexit" wasn't on the ballot and as I recall I didn't mind any kind of brexit so long as we left the EU. Thats all I voted for. I was actually in two minds seeing a lot of benefit of a partnership with our neighboring countries. I just didn't like and don't like the EU institutions. I have very close family in both the commission and the parliament (not elected) which helped inform my decision but the final straw was my very senior boss at the time suggesting how the employees might vote - he was american but in charge of all UK employees. It may have been a mistake - I hope not and time will tell. Either way, the EU absolutely should not make it difficult for members to leave. That is what is happening now. They shouldn't remain together based on fear of leaving. Member states should actively want to be members. But this is not about changing the institutions from within- its too late for that now! But really in all this mess, the biggest problem and the one that really got me excited about it all was when a group of clever people tried to fiddle with a free and fair referendum. (As free and fair as any other election in this country which isn't without issues but is considered good enough). It really shocked me that so many of former friends (and some current) colleagues etc convinced themselves that their "right" version of European relations is more important than what some idiots and thickies voted for - i.e they must believe the issue at hand was more important than democracy itself. In fact it got me so fired up, I joined a political party just for the purpose of deposing our MP (which he duly was). Interesting post, I disagree with a lot of it, but I appreciate you taking the time to articulate your position. Thank you.
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Post by captainconfident on Dec 8, 2020 18:55:36 GMT
michaelc , may I ask you a sincere question - when you voted to leave, were you voting for a complete break from any direct relations with the EU, total sovereignty approach where Britain sets its own trade standards and insists that our trading partners accept them, making any trade relationship with the EU very barriered, or did you expect a less impeded trade relationship with the EU, like staying in the single market as outlined by leading Brexit fan Danial Hannon here:- www.youtube.com/watch?v=zzykce4oxII&feature=youtu.be&t=308Or Liam Fox's during the referendum advocated staying in a customs union as discussed here:- leave.eu/customs-union-approach/? Yep no problem. Not many others around these parts willing to support Leave. If I get a torrent of ridicule or as unfriendly as possible whilst staying within the rules of the board I shan't engage further. I can handle one or two bad apples but not a whole basket full Clearly I voted to leave the EU. The type of of "brexit" wasn't on the ballot and as I recall I didn't mind any kind of brexit so long as we left the EU. Thats all I voted for. I was actually in two minds seeing a lot of benefit of a partnership with our neighboring countries. I just didn't like and don't like the EU institutions. I have very close family in both the commission and the parliament (not elected) which helped inform my decision but the final straw was my very senior boss at the time suggesting how the employees might vote - he was american but in charge of all UK employees. It may have been a mistake - I hope not and time will tell. Either way, the EU absolutely should not make it difficult for members to leave. That is what is happening now. They shouldn't remain together based on fear of leaving. Member states should actively want to be members. But this is not about changing the institutions from within- its too late for that now! But really in all this mess, the biggest problem and the one that really got me excited about it all was when a group of clever people tried to fiddle with a free and fair referendum. (As free and fair as any other election in this country which isn't without issues but is considered good enough). It really shocked me that so many of former friends (and some current) colleagues etc convinced themselves that their "right" version of European relations is more important than what some idiots and thickies voted for - i.e they must believe the issue at hand was more important than democracy itself. In fact it got me so fired up, I joined a political party just for the purpose of deposing our MP (which he duly was). You wrote a lot of stuff that just refights the referendum, but we are here now, so could you answer the original question?. There were two or three different visions of Brexit on offer. Which one did you think was going t be pursued? Whoch one did you most support? Are you happy with the current religious zeal for an ideologically pure Brexit at the expense of all else? This is an article discussing precisely this question:- www.msn.com/en-gb/news/other/the-idea-of-sovereignty-is-nonsense-let-s-give-up-the-obsession-and-break-the-brexit-deadlock/ar-BB1bJIzy?ocid=msedgntp
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Post by Harland Kearney on Dec 8, 2020 19:12:35 GMT
I was not able to vote during this referendum as I was not of age, by a few weeks. However, I can say my classmates were 90% pro-EU, which isn't a surprise. I myself was fence fitting or well I didn't really give it all too much thinking as you don't at that age with Exams in focus etc.
If I was to vote today, I would vote pro-EU, even though I despise many of the EU institutions, I despise the UKs Governments inability to sort out this mess more. This will be continuing for most likely the next few years if not till 2025. A "deal" may be made, but it can never make up for the losses already. With the mounting Public Debt, I hope we all can share the joy of higher taxes too.
However, now that I have a lot more experience with finance, economy & politics I am pessimistic of UK's future. I haven't read these articles posted here and everywhere and I don't generally ignore mainstream media as its full of misinformation or click fest writing that is useless.
I cannot see a single positive that has come about from the journey to leave the EU so far? Well actually I can, many of my US based share holdings have increased in value due to the currency devalution, but isn't exactly a long term postivie is it. Where is the Boris Bus now, I didn't see this chaos last-minute "meetings" written on it?
Really, I am surprised if anybody actually thought that Governments and parties who were Pro-EU would be able to deliver anything but failure to Brexit objective. Trusting the Government to do anything more than the status Quo is remarkably fool hardy when it is not in their orginal interests if anything history is to go by.
Oh well, I look forward to the next 5 years for this country. I myself personally do not have too many woes to take care of, but the UK clearly does, and its gonna need all the luck it can get.
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