Brexit and logistics

Me too, and there was always the danger of it, but the reason I posted the OP was because it was interesting, relevant and from a subject matter expert (compare and contrast with Mr "I didn't realise Dover was important" Raab) in the particular domain of trade, customs and logistics - I'd not seen that before.

Oh I don't know....

Four years ago we were bickering about 'is this going to be a good or bad thing'.

Two years ago, we were bickering about whether it really had to be done at all.

Now, having established it's at best a bit of a waste of our country's time and with democracy's intent fulfilled, we're now speculating on just how big the socio-economic bill is and will be.

Progress, see! 

Re: truth/facts, facts of importance to me off the top of my head:

As of next year I am going to have count up my Schengen days carefully around my home continent in order to not break the law.
I am no longer going to be eligible for an EHIC.
My currency is worth 10-15% less globally than it used to be.
Instead of being asked about Manchester United when I meet a new person abroad, they wince and ask about Brexit.
Back home, I look at things that don't (yet) impact me directly but that are important and have been neglected of time and money e.g. The social care bill, inequality, NHS improvements.

I'm obviously not expecting a chorus of violins here for my travel-related inconvenience. I'm still a very privileged first-world person. Yet, I would much prefer it if there was at least a long list of countervailing benefits that others are going to be experiencing to balance things out. I'm yet to hear them though.

edit: X'd with Dan. Well, you've put my waffle in 3 words:  "too few winners"

edit2: I warn you all, I've opened a 330ml tin of Greek supermarket own-brand 3.8% lager now. things could get messy, I best bow out.

No, we don't.

The EU have acted absolutely consistently and openly through all of this. They have said "This is where we stand. You know how we work, and you know we will not change the way our internal market works for your benefit - so pick where on that scale you want your relationship to be."

We face a world who stare at us, and wonder how we can be so short-sighted and so disingenuous... while wondering whether we can be trusted to stand by our word and obligations.


The WTO basis for trade is ongoing until such time as we grow up and negotiate a proper deal in good faith.

We may get the logistics bottlenecks sorted out before then - they are entirely down to UK lack of preparedness and incompetence, after all.

Two points to make:

1/ It looks like we have 5 or 6 posteres here on one side of the debate and just one poster on the other. If this was a playground and we were kids I'd say he's on the verge of being bullied.

2/ Why would it make any sense for the EU to be as friendly and reasonable as possible to any of its members leaving the club? It doesn't want to reduce in size and certainly doesn't want to lose its larger members so why would it be keen to show that the route out of the EU is easy or frictionless to use the jargon ?

Look back to the 2016 brexit threads. This place was overwhelmingly pro-brexit...

Is the fact that there's only one person still willing to support the godawful mess a sign of dawning reality?

Well, there's a new website warning that time is running out. And the PM had a call with businesses today.

Mr Johnson told businesses on the call on Tuesday afternoon: “It is vital that everybody on this call takes seriously the need to get ready, because whatever happens . . . change is going to happen.”
...
Carolyn Fairbairn, director-general of the CBI, said businesses were “finding it really difficult to prepare because they don’t know what for”.

Edit: and for those who don't like the FT here's The Telegraph: Brexit is like moving house' Gove tells business in 'disastrous' conference call

Another source said: "It felt like an exercise so the Government can say it has formally talked to business. The Prime Minister does not have a grasp of detail and that’s what Brexit is about.
"It feels like only in the past few weeks they have realised this and it’s incredibly scary, especially as we don't have a lot of time.”

Thanks, but no worries on my account.  One or two do enjoy their brusque (if not sometimes outright rude) commenting style, but it's water off a duck's back, and most posters here do manage to keep it civil.  

Perhaps surprisingly, I don't have particularly strong leanings one way or the other*, have always seen arguments for both, and I very much appreciate the factual posts, such as adrianc 's outlining the proportionate national spend vs. EU membership cost, for example.  It's unfortunate that very little of this factual, rational debate entered the mainstream media back in 2016, so that people were fully and properly informed.  I remember hunting around at the time and it was difficult to sort the good from the scaremongering.  That's why I like to challenge scaremongering now, if I think I detect it.  

*I didn't even get a vote in the referendum!  Mrs Dolt & I moved house in March 2016 and lost our votes because our new local authority was remiss with their paperwork.  When I see the debate still raging, I'm sometimes grateful we were enforced fence-sitters...