adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Mar 12, 2021 19:20:53 GMT
I'm also looking forward to a time when we can repatriate foreign criminals if we choose to, without that decision being blocked by some European court that knows better. Ah, that long-standing chestnut... We always could. Unless there was a bloody good reason - like lack of evidence or they're going to be tortured or killed. Then there's the minor detail that the European Convention on Human Rights is nothing whatosever to do with the EU. Never has been. The UK basically wrote the convention in the late 40s, and has been bound to it ever since. Even Putin's Russia and Erdogan's Turkey are bound by it... yet it's too stringent for us? So which bits do you actually disagree with? www.echr.coe.int/documents/convention_eng.pdfOh, and don't forget that the Human Rights Act 1998 means that UK courts can prosecute breaches, it doesn't have to go to the European Court. It's actually harder now for justice to cross borders, because of the lack of the European Arrest Warrant, and because of the lack of access to shared intelligence. "invoking article 16" If I recall correctly that lasted three hours, the EU held their hand up and owned up that it was a mistake that should never has happened. Thus not a valid example of "obstruction". And, of course, BJ Piffle agreed with the DUP that it should be revoked... WAY before, and since, and far more consistently... He did so to try and stop the barrier he chose. www.thejournal.ie/simon-coveney-dup-northern-ireland-protocol-5343429-Feb2021/
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Mar 12, 2021 19:22:28 GMT
You straw clutching Brexiteers are hilarious.
Shall I unpick your "examples of obstruction" one by one ?
"Documents not completed in the right colour pen" - My guess, to put it politely, is that is bull excrement invented by the government and/or pro-brexit media mouthpieces. Thus not a valid example of "obstruction". Sorry, but refuting this assertion requires a little more than guesswork! Care to produce an actual documented example of such a rejection, so it can actually be unpicked? Because otherwise it sounds an awful lot like something somebody made up.
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Mar 12, 2021 19:25:05 GMT
I do find myself looking forward to a time when our towns and cities are no longer infested by gangs of pickpockets, organised shoplifter teams, card skimmers, fraudsters, and illegal brothel workers & their pimps, an inordinate proportion of whom all derive from one particular eastern European state who are especially adept at these matters.
Trying very hard to "play the ball, not the man here" ....
Out of 671,126 arrests, 400,914 were "white British"
Otherwise stated, 59.74% of arrests were of "white British" people.
It seems to me that "white British" people alone are perfectly capable of committing the majority of crimes in the UK.
That's before we get into other races who are born and bred British and hold a British passport.
I suspect your tarnishing with an oversized brush of "a particular eastern European state" is very much undeserved. Your fellow countrymen are as much of a bunch of criminals as those from "a particular eastern European state".
I pass no further comment.
The only comment I'm going to pass is... fullfact.org/immigration/foreigners-prison/In 2018, foreign nationals made up 9% (and rising) of the population, 12% (and falling) of the prison population.
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Post by bernythedolt on Mar 12, 2021 19:28:51 GMT
I do find myself looking forward to a time when our towns and cities are no longer infested by gangs of pickpockets, organised shoplifter teams, card skimmers, fraudsters, and illegal brothel workers & their pimps, an inordinate proportion of whom all derive from one particular eastern European state who are especially adept at these matters.
Trying very hard to "play the ball, not the man here" ....
Out of 671,126 arrests, 400,914 were "white British"
Otherwise stated, 59.74% of arrests were of "white British" people.
It seems to me that "white British" people alone are perfectly capable of committing the majority of crimes in the UK.
That's before we get into other races who are born and bred British and hold a British passport.
I suspect your tarnishing with an oversized brush of "a particular eastern European state" is very much undeserved. Your fellow countrymen are as much of a bunch of criminals as those from "a particular eastern European state".
I pass no further comment.
White British - the predominant stock of the UK by a huge margin - commit the 'majority' of crimes. Hardly surprising. So let's analyse your figures. The UK comprises approximately 87% white British. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demography_of_the_United_KingdomYet those 400,914 white British arrests comprise just 60% of the total 671,126 arrests, as you say. Conclusion: white British commit way less crime here than their numbers suggest they should. They do NOT commit the majority of crimes in the UK, when using any sensible measure of that statistic. That's before we start to look at the severity of the offence leading to the arrest. I suggest most white British arrests are for lesser offences such as drunken behaviour, disturbing the peace and disorderly conduct, rather than the more distressing pickpocketing, card skimming and people trafficking end of the scale. (Your figures represent 'notifiable' offences only, so my statement here warrants further examination). From inspecting your link, it's perfectly clear that white British are far and away the most law-abiding of the major groups.
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Post by bernythedolt on Mar 12, 2021 19:32:49 GMT
Trying very hard to "play the ball, not the man here" ....
Out of 671,126 arrests, 400,914 were "white British"
Otherwise stated, 59.74% of arrests were of "white British" people.
It seems to me that "white British" people alone are perfectly capable of committing the majority of crimes in the UK.
That's before we get into other races who are born and bred British and hold a British passport.
I suspect your tarnishing with an oversized brush of "a particular eastern European state" is very much undeserved. Your fellow countrymen are as much of a bunch of criminals as those from "a particular eastern European state".
I pass no further comment.
The only comment I'm going to pass is... fullfact.org/immigration/foreigners-prison/In 2018, foreign nationals made up 9% (and rising) of the population, 12% (and falling) of the prison population. ...meaning they are over-represented in prison by 33%. Hardly a glowing endorsement.
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Mar 12, 2021 19:37:40 GMT
...meaning they are over-represented in prison by 33%. Hardly a glowing endorsement. I wonder how many UK nationals are in prison for illegal entry into the UK? I wonder what the proportion of nationalities is amongst, say, drug couriers? Then, of course, there's simple racism and xenophobia keeping foreign nationals down. Black British people are massively over-represented in prison, too.
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michaelc
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Post by michaelc on Mar 12, 2021 19:48:51 GMT
...meaning they are over-represented in prison by 33%. Hardly a glowing endorsement. I wonder how many UK nationals are in prison for illegal entry into the UK? I wonder what the proportion of nationalities is amongst, say, drug couriers? Then, of course, there's simple racism and xenophobia keeping foreign nationals down. Black British people are massively over-represented in prison, too.Partly down to the crazy "war on drugs"
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Post by df on Mar 12, 2021 20:30:13 GMT
I won't depress myself by watching, but my tip on the cheap booze front is the Lidl weekly special. This week, their South African Sauvignon Blanc, £3 a bottle when you buy 6. OK, it's not NZ quality, but can't complain for the price. I agree. Lidl excellent for wine and both the lower and middle ends of the market and if I wasn't in self imposed isolation I'd get all my wine there. I find Tesco wine overpriced, mass-produced and boring. Some years ago I used to get all my wine from Lidl. Very low prices for very good wine and continuous discounts. I recall once filling the trolley with 30 bottles and shop assistant asking "having a big party?", I said "no, just prefer buying in bulk when it's on offer" . But at some point they've increased prices and I switched my wine custom to Aldi.
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Post by bernythedolt on Mar 12, 2021 22:19:17 GMT
Some of my posts here this evening have disappeared. Have I been censored without even the courtesy to tell me so?
One post, for example, invited somebody to Google "pickpocket arrests uk" to research the spread of nationalities involved. I was careful not to mention any particular nation in that post. That post has now vanished.
Can anybody explain?
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Post by Badly Drawn Stickman on Mar 12, 2021 22:31:02 GMT
Some of my posts here this evening have disappeared. Have I been censored without even the courtesy to tell me so? One post, for example, invited somebody to Google "pickpocket arrests uk" to research the spread of nationalities involved. I was careful not to mention any particular nation in that post. That post has now vanished. Can anybody explain? Probably pilfered by an agent of the EU
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ozboy
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Mine's a Large One! (Snigger, snigger .......)
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Post by ozboy on Mar 12, 2021 22:47:39 GMT
Some of my posts here this evening have disappeared. Have I been censored without even the courtesy to tell me so? One post, for example, invited somebody to Google "pickpocket arrests uk" to research the spread of nationalities involved. I was careful not to mention any particular nation in that post. That post has now vanished. Can anybody explain? Yes. The Mods and Rockers have to play it very, VERY carefully because they don't have funds, legal backup, etc, etc, so err on the side of extreme caution. And they're unpaid volunteers (AFAIK) so it's expedient to just remove the posting and not necessaraily notify you if they don't have the time, inclination, whatever. Perfectly reasonable I suppose, albeit a bit bewildering/annoying for the "Censored" Poster.
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Post by bernythedolt on Mar 12, 2021 23:13:27 GMT
Thanks Oz. It smacks of more like cancel culture to me. adrianc, @wallstreet and others: I have enjoyed the discourse and tried my best to remain civil and non-contentious, but I shall no longer be responding to your invitations to attempt to justify Brexit. Great shame, but it seems the moderating dice are too loaded pro-Remain and anti-Brexit. When a simple invitation for someone to conduct their own online research on who's committing certain offences gets censored, I know it's time to bow out.
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michaelc
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Post by michaelc on Mar 12, 2021 23:35:06 GMT
Thanks Oz. It smacks of more like cancel culture to me. adrianc , @wallstreet and others: I have enjoyed the discourse and tried my best to remain civil and non-contentious, but I shall no longer be responding to your invitations to attempt to justify Brexit. Great shame, but it seems the moderating dice are too loaded pro-Remain and anti-Brexit. When a simple invitation for someone to conduct their own online research on who's committing certain offences gets censored, I know it's time to bow out. Sadly I'm thinking along similar lines. It does seem a shame that the "editor" of an online forum appears to be treated in law just like an editor of a newspaper. The former has little control over content and the later has absolute control over it. Maybe one day the law will catch up. In the meantime, moderating a financial forum must be a little risky at the best of times and I do respect those that do it.
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Mar 13, 2021 8:01:54 GMT
When a simple invitation for someone to conduct their own online research on who's committing certain offences gets censored, I know it's time to bow out. Throwing a totally unsubstantiated and frankly risible claim like "load rejected because of the wrong colour ink on a form" puts the onus of proof onto those pointing at it and laughing...? No, sorry. At least come up with some kind of evidence that such a thing has EVER actually existed in the real world. Then we can discuss rationally what might have actually happened. All I can find is multiple instances of unsourced anecdote like... www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1393873/Boris-Johnson-Brexit-fishing-news-trade-deal-exports-EU-vnAnd the claim is coming from somebody who, nearly two years ago, was warning that Brexit was going to destroy his industry. www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp/news/scotland/1893267/scottish-fishing-chief-warns-of-looming-crisis-for-inshore-fleet/Another similarly unsourced anecdote... www.expressandstar.com/news/uk-news/2021/02/04/colour-of-ink-on-forms-among-catalogue-of-problems-hitting-post-brexit-exports/...which doesn't even attempt to ascribe it to anything systematic on behalf of this "obstructive" EU, just newly recruited and trained customs agents who are struggling to deal with the changes. FWIW, the UK hasn't even started to try and do that job yet. It's scheduled for the summer, because we haven't got the infrastructure in place. That's right, we aren't checking any imports at all. Take back control of those borders... And as far back as 2018, he was saying any form of Brexit was "a backward step"... dailybusinessgroup.co.uk/2018/11/scotland-food-drink-ceo-warns-of-disastrous-no-deal/If anything, it seems like they're both pointing to the current dog's brexit as proof that "project fear" was utterly founded.
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Post by captainconfident on Mar 13, 2021 10:21:34 GMT
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