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Post by captainconfident on Jun 4, 2021 16:41:12 GMT
No according to that scientist quoted at the time. What's the difference between India and Pakistan/Bangladesh at that time? The UK was only pursuing a trade deal with one of them. When did other countries stop travel from India? Here's The Netherlands, 13th March. What's the difference between NL and the UK? Only one is in desperate need for a trade deal to justify their reckless gamble. www.nu.nl/coronavirus/6037537/overzicht-voor-deze-landen-geldt-een-aangescherpt-reisadvies.html?fbclid=IwAR1NxOD_X7iLAR60f_P_nh-nF4WJZ1GcU9DnrWSqBiutQJkLrKqAKkdm1OcWhy was it critical to stop travel from India sooner and make it not inevitable that it would spread through the population? Because Test and Trace, on which the Government has spaffed £30+ BILLION to private companies, does not work very well and the fewer virus arrivals there were, the more likely it could cope in tracing their contacts. It should not have been 'inevitable' and dogged attempts to brush off this government's culpability does nobody any credit. Nobody listens to Altmann, he was the one bleating that the Brazilian variant was going to kill us all and that the government had it all wrong with the single dose strategy, another day another bed to wet. What the scientist says is likely to happen, quoted in that article from April, is exactly what has happened. Whether or not he is generally a good scientist does not invalidate anything else I said above.
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Greenwood2
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Post by Greenwood2 on Jun 4, 2021 16:45:53 GMT
Nobody listens to Altmann, he was the one bleating that the Brazilian variant was going to kill us all and that the government had it all wrong with the single dose strategy, another day another bed to wet. What the scientist says is likely to happen, quoted in that article from April, is exactly what has happened. Whether or not he is generally a good scientist does not invalidate anything else I said above. But since the Indian variant had been here since February it's spread through the UK was already inevitable (and whatever consequences). It was here pretty much before we knew it existed.
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Post by captainconfident on Jun 4, 2021 16:50:29 GMT
What the scientist says is likely to happen, quoted in that article from April, is exactly what has happened. Whether or not he is generally a good scientist does not invalidate anything else I said above. But since the Indian variant had been here since February it's spread through the UK was already inevitable (and whatever consequences). It was here pretty much before we knew it existed. Do you have a source for that? How did the Indian Covid variant get to the UK?
While it is not exactly known how the variant made it to the UK, new PHE data has revealed that at least 122 people brought the Indian variant to Britain from New Dehli and Mumbai between late March and the end of April, according to PHE data.news.sky.com/story/covid-19-the-three-days-in-april-that-may-have-fuelled-uk-outbreak-of-indian-coronavirus-variant-12306393
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agent69
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Post by agent69 on Jun 4, 2021 16:52:57 GMT
So now Brexit is responsible for the spread of covid 19. Whatever will remoaners think of next?
What is the relevance of the date that Pakistan and Bangladesh were put on the red list? The fact that they are close geographically to India doesn't mean all three get treated the same (in the same way that Afganistan is next door and that was only put on the red list yesterday). The problem with the Indian variant is that we have a large indian contingent in this country and travel too and from India is big business. Given that the Indian variant was first detected in this country in February, it's a bit academic whether the red listing came a week later than it should have.
Ultimately we were never going to keep the Indian variant out (in the same way that EU countries couldn't keep the Kent variant out), and any delay in red listing has just caused the inevitable to happen a bit earlier. Don't forget that the number of people bringing the Indian variant into this country increased after they were red listed!
I assume you applaud the governments decision to put Portugal on the amber list due to concerns over a new Nepal variant?
No according to that scientist quoted at the time. What's the difference between India and Pakistan/Bangladesh at that time? The UK was only pursuing a trade deal with one of them. When did other countries stop travel from India? Here's The Netherlands, 13th March. What's the difference between NL and the UK? Only one is in desperate need for a trade deal to justify their reckless gamble. www.nu.nl/coronavirus/6037537/overzicht-voor-deze-landen-geldt-een-aangescherpt-reisadvies.html?fbclid=IwAR1NxOD_X7iLAR60f_P_nh-nF4WJZ1GcU9DnrWSqBiutQJkLrKqAKkdm1OcWhy was it critical to stop travel from India sooner and make it not inevitable that it would spread through the population? Because Test and Trace, on which the Government has spaffed £30+ BILLION to private companies, does not work very well and the fewer virus arrivals there were, the more likely it could cope in tracing their contacts. It should not have been 'inevitable' and dogged attempts to brush off this government's culpability does nobody any credit. So your analysis is based on the actions of one country out of 195?
PS - you didn't answer the question about Portugal
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agent69
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Post by agent69 on Jun 4, 2021 16:55:26 GMT
But since the Indian variant had been here since February it's spread through the UK was already inevitable (and whatever consequences). It was here pretty much before we knew it existed. Do you have a source for that?How did the Indian Covid variant get to the UK?
While it is not exactly known how the variant made it to the UK, new PHE data has revealed that at least 122 people brought the Indian variant to Britain from New Dehli and Mumbai between late March and the end of April, according to PHE data.news.sky.com/story/covid-19-the-three-days-in-april-that-may-have-fuelled-uk-outbreak-of-indian-coronavirus-variant-12306393It was in the Guardian link you posted earlier
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Greenwood2
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Post by Greenwood2 on Jun 4, 2021 17:45:48 GMT
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Post by captainconfident on Jun 4, 2021 17:48:12 GMT
It was in the Guardian link you posted earlier "While 13 specimens dating to the week ending 13 March were found to contain the India variant, there were 30 such specimens dating to the week ending 3 April". sars2.cvr.gla.ac.uk/cog-uk/The £30+ BILLION Track and Trace system would surely have been able to cope with an outbreak of this size. To say otherwise would be to admit that the government has wasted that money. Quarantining Indian arrivals from 3rd April, the same day it was imposed on Pakistan/Bangladesh, would have constrained this outbreak to the mop-up-able numbers above. The PM had his big Brexit trade deal trip planned, wanted to show that we favoured India over its regional rivals, and left unquarantined Indian passengers arriving between 3rd and 23rd April, making the outbreak inevitable. “Ministers were given the news of the [Indian] variant’s arrival on April 1 but no official statement was made until April 15. India was not placed on the red list banning travellers from the country for another eight days (23rd April). Thousands of potentially infected people were allowed to enter the country… At least 20,000 passengers—who could have been infected with the virulent new strain—were allowed to enter Britain in the first three weeks of April.” SUNDAY TIMES 23/5/21 I refer you again to this article news.sky.com/story/covid-19-the-three-days-in-april-that-may-have-fuelled-uk-outbreak-of-indian-coronavirus-variant-12306393And to my initial post, which none of this nit picking has done anything to refute.
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agent69
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Post by agent69 on Jun 4, 2021 18:39:15 GMT
It was in the Guardian link you posted earlier "While 13 specimens dating to the week ending 13 March were found to contain the India variant, there were 30 such specimens dating to the week ending 3 April". sars2.cvr.gla.ac.uk/cog-uk/The £30+ BILLION Track and Trace system would surely have been able to cope with an outbreak of this size. To say otherwise would be to admit that the government has wasted that money. Quarantining Indian arrivals from 3rd April, the same day it was imposed on Pakistan/Bangladesh, would have constrained this outbreak to the mop-up-able numbers above. The PM had his big Brexit trade deal trip planned, wanted to show that we favoured India over its regional rivals, and left unquarantined Indian passengers arriving between 3rd and 23rd April, making the outbreak inevitable. “Ministers were given the news of the [Indian] variant’s arrival on April 1 but no official statement was made until April 15. India was not placed on the red list banning travellers from the country for another eight days (23rd April). Thousands of potentially infected people were allowed to enter the country… At least 20,000 passengers—who could have been infected with the virulent new strain—were allowed to enter Britain in the first three weeks of April.” SUNDAY TIMES 23/5/21 I refer you again to this article news.sky.com/story/covid-19-the-three-days-in-april-that-may-have-fuelled-uk-outbreak-of-indian-coronavirus-variant-12306393And to my initial post, which none of this nit picking has done anything to refute. You asked where the February date came from, and all I did was point out that it was contained in a link that you posted. (the precise comment being - Public Health England reported that 77 cases of the B.1.617 variant, which was first discovered in India, have been found. The first were detected in specimens dating back to February, the Guardian reported on Friday).
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Post by captainconfident on Jun 4, 2021 19:00:24 GMT
When were Pakistan and Bangladesh put on the red list for travel? 2nd April 2021 When was PM Boris Johnson's official visit to India called off due to rampant spread of new variety corona virus? 17th April 2021 When was India put on the red list for travel? 23rd April 2021. Because of his need to grab any trade deal that could justify Brexit, Johnson wanted to show that we treated India 'favourably'. In meantime tens of thousands came into Britain unchecked. How can you explain the events above any other way? We imported a new strain of the virus that will cost us millions as travel to other countries is stopped and reopening of the economy has to be postponed. Who will be held responsible? Nobody because the structure of democracy in Britain means the mighty can't be held to account. A scientist from the time, pointing out that people have been coming in from airports unchecked and predicting what will result:- www.theguardian.com/world/2021/apr/17/add-india-to-uk-travel-ban-list-to-stop-covid-coronavirus-variant-urges-scientist?fbclid=IwAR0ixnfwyH1aSpqHdhpdbgmxxqNPF1Hka81W8EaXWHZpW3X8NoKjepm8z8ASo now Brexit is responsible for the spread of covid 19. Whatever will remoaners think of next?
What is the relevance of the date that Pakistan and Bangladesh were put on the red list? The fact that they are close geographically to India doesn't mean all three get treated the same (in the same way that Afganistan is next door and that was only put on the red list yesterday). The problem with the Indian variant is that we have a large indian contingent in this country and travel too and from India is big business. Given that the Indian variant was first detected in this country in February, it's a bit academic whether the red listing came a week later than it should have.
Ultimately we were never going to keep the Indian variant out (in the same way that EU countries couldn't keep the Kent variant out), and any delay in red listing has just caused the inevitable to happen a bit earlier. Don't forget that the number of people bringing the Indian variant into this country increased after they were red listed!
I assume you applaud the governments decision to put Portugal on the amber list due to concerns over a new Nepal variant?
You agent69 posted this above, saying that this outbreak was inevitable. I have refuted what you said with evidence. The gap in which the border was open, by the way, was 20 days, not "one week". Ultimately we were never going to keep the Indian variant out (in the same way that EU countries couldn't keep the Kent variant out), and any delay in red listing has just caused the inevitable to happen a bit earlier.
Britain is an island, unlike the EU. If Track and Trace was remotely fit for service, the 30 cases detected by 3rd April should have been manageable. Can you think of another reason that the one country of three in a region, the one that had the 'variant of concern', should have been left without quarantine obligations, apart from the PMs planned trade trip?
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Greenwood2
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Post by Greenwood2 on Jun 4, 2021 19:45:54 GMT
So now Brexit is responsible for the spread of covid 19. Whatever will remoaners think of next?
What is the relevance of the date that Pakistan and Bangladesh were put on the red list? The fact that they are close geographically to India doesn't mean all three get treated the same (in the same way that Afganistan is next door and that was only put on the red list yesterday). The problem with the Indian variant is that we have a large indian contingent in this country and travel too and from India is big business. Given that the Indian variant was first detected in this country in February, it's a bit academic whether the red listing came a week later than it should have.
Ultimately we were never going to keep the Indian variant out (in the same way that EU countries couldn't keep the Kent variant out), and any delay in red listing has just caused the inevitable to happen a bit earlier. Don't forget that the number of people bringing the Indian variant into this country increased after they were red listed!
I assume you applaud the governments decision to put Portugal on the amber list due to concerns over a new Nepal variant?
You agent69 posted this above, saying that this outbreak was inevitable. I have refuted what you said with evidence. If Track and Trace was remotely fit for service, the 30 cases detected by 3rd April should have been manageable. Can you think of another reason that the one country of three in a region, the one that had the 'variant of concern', should have been left without quarantine obligations, apart from the PMs planned trade trip? If you look at the link I gave you can see how the variants spread easily around the world, we got it from India in February or earlier and if we hadn't it would have come from Europe or somewhere else. We would have to totally close all borders to keep out new variants.
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Post by captainconfident on Jun 4, 2021 19:55:25 GMT
You agent69 posted this above, saying that this outbreak was inevitable. I have refuted what you said with evidence. If Track and Trace was remotely fit for service, the 30 cases detected by 3rd April should have been manageable. Can you think of another reason that the one country of three in a region, the one that had the 'variant of concern', should have been left without quarantine obligations, apart from the PMs planned trade trip? If you look at the link I gave you can see how the variants spread easily around the world, we got it from India in February or earlier and if we hadn't it would have come from Europe or somewhere else. We would have to totally close all borders to keep out new variants. No, on an island, quarantine is sufficient in combination with track and trace, if quarantine is imposed at the right moment. The government excepted India for 20 critical days, beyond similar countries. Why did they do that?
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Greenwood2
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Post by Greenwood2 on Jun 5, 2021 5:25:09 GMT
If you look at the link I gave you can see how the variants spread easily around the world, we got it from India in February or earlier and if we hadn't it would have come from Europe or somewhere else. We would have to totally close all borders to keep out new variants. No, on an island, quarantine is sufficient in combination with track and trace, if quarantine is imposed at the right moment. The government excepted India for 20 critical days, beyond similar countries. Why did they do that? You could equally ask why were we letting people in from France in early April when Covid was rampant there. (And other parts of Europe).
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Jun 5, 2021 7:38:39 GMT
When was PM Boris Johnson's official visit to India called off due to rampant spread of new variety corona virus? 17th April 2021 When was India put on the red list for travel? 23rd April 2021. Not quite... The trip was announced as having been cancelled on Monday 19th. www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-56800305India was announced as having been added to the red list later on Monday 19th, but effective from 4am on the 23rd. www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-56806103www.gov.uk/government/news/india-added-to-red-list-as-cases-of-new-variant-riseOh, and as for Portugal... 7th May - added to green list 13th May - UEFA cup final announced as moved to Porto 29th May - UEFA cup final played 3rd June - moved from green to amber list, bypassing "green watch" list completely. I understand Michael Gove's son was particularly keen to see the football match, so his father went with him... They've now been pinged by track'n'trace... www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-57355599Still, I'm sure they'll be fine, having observed sensible precautions at all times... No posing for photos with other spectators... Oh.
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agent69
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Post by agent69 on Jun 5, 2021 8:59:01 GMT
You agent69 posted this above, saying that this outbreak was inevitable. I have refuted what you said with evidence. The gap in which the border was open, by the way, was 20 days, not "one week". Ultimately we were never going to keep the Indian variant out (in the same way that EU countries couldn't keep the Kent variant out), and any delay in red listing has just caused the inevitable to happen a bit earlier.
Britain is an island, unlike the EU. If Track and Trace was remotely fit for service, the 30 cases detected by 3rd April should have been manageable. Can you think of another reason that the one country of three in a region, the one that had the 'variant of concern', should have been left without quarantine obligations, apart from the PMs planned trade trip? Or more accurately, you have tried to refute it with wild speculation
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Greenwood2
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Post by Greenwood2 on Jun 5, 2021 11:03:27 GMT
You agent69 posted this above, saying that this outbreak was inevitable. I have refuted what you said with evidence. The gap in which the border was open, by the way, was 20 days, not "one week". Ultimately we were never going to keep the Indian variant out (in the same way that EU countries couldn't keep the Kent variant out), and any delay in red listing has just caused the inevitable to happen a bit earlier.
Britain is an island, unlike the EU. If Track and Trace was remotely fit for service, the 30 cases detected by 3rd April should have been manageable. Can you think of another reason that the one country of three in a region, the one that had the 'variant of concern', should have been left without quarantine obligations, apart from the PMs planned trade trip? Or more accurately, you have tried to refute it with wild speculation If I'm reading the same article it also says it can take up to four weeks to send positive samples for sequencing and not all positive tests are sequenced, the 30 cases identified (dated to the week of the 3rd April) were apparently included in the report on the 15th of April, and there were 77 cases identified in total at that time the first being from February. The delay between testing and sequencing means it would be too late to effectively go back and quarantine, and trace and track individuals with specific variants.
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