JamesFrance
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Post by JamesFrance on Jun 11, 2021 10:34:21 GMT
All the bureaucratic barriers the EU puts in the way of anyone trying to sell anything to them just increase costs for any business involved. Presumably this is to protect their own producers even though they pretend to offer free trade agreements. Brexit has made most things more difficult and abolishing the EU would have been a much better outcome for anyone not comfortably employed to create all their rules and regulations.
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Jun 11, 2021 12:07:30 GMT
All the bureaucratic barriers the EU puts in the way of anyone trying to sell anything to them just increase costs for any business involved. Presumably this is to protect their own producers even though they pretend to offer free trade agreements. Brexit has made most things more difficult and abolishing the EU would have been a much better outcome for anyone not comfortably employed to create all their rules and regulations. How would 27 different regulatory environments and sets of product standards be easier for anybody looking to sell into those markets? Or are you arguing against a country requiring imports to meet their standards generally...?
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ptr120
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Post by ptr120 on Jun 11, 2021 12:07:37 GMT
But JamesFrance it is the UK that is putting trade barriers in place, not the other way around. If you'd like a proofpoint, you might want to look at www.the-buyer.net/people/daniel-lambert-brexit-wine-suppliers/ to see the impact that Brexit is having on the wine industry which means that costs are going up, and choice is going down. Lets take a look at some of those hurdles: - For every order (EAD) of wine the producer in that country will need to create an EMCS form that allows that wine to transition through the EU to a port. - They will need to transport the wine on special ISPM 15 fumigated pallets that are said to cost more and are harder to find. - To export that wine out of the EU you will need an EX1 (that can only be produced by a specialist broker costing around £75) and EAD document from the producer in the country that the wine came from. This is a UK requirement - To get the wine into the UK means going through the Chief system, which was previously only used for wines from non-EU countries, and have a C88 document – if you are bringing wine in duty deferred or duty paid. A C88 also requires a broker to process costing a further £50 to £75. - If you are importing the wine bonded then you need a movement guarantee (that costs around £50) and put it on a UK EMCS movement document. Or pay for a haulier’s movement guarantee - It means every shipment of wine now incurs a fixed cost of at around least £125 to £150 in customs fees. - If you do manage to get all your paper work right it is currently taking around six to eight weeks shipped from the EU, four weeks longer than before.
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JamesFrance
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Post by JamesFrance on Jun 11, 2021 13:19:10 GMT
Sadly politicians, lawyers and public servants everywhere seem to exist to impede business activity. I am happy to no longer need to deal with it all since it is 40 years since I ran companies and had to deal with all the interference. Every year they thought up some new time and money wasting demand.
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bernythedolt
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Post by bernythedolt on Jun 11, 2021 16:07:42 GMT
But JamesFrance it is the UK that is putting trade barriers in place, not the other way around. If you'd like a proofpoint, you might want to look at www.the-buyer.net/people/daniel-lambert-brexit-wine-suppliers/ to see the impact that Brexit is having on the wine industry which means that costs are going up, and choice is going down. Lets take a look at some of those hurdles: - For every order (EAD) of wine the producer in that country will need to create an EMCS form that allows that wine to transition through the EU to a port. - They will need to transport the wine on special ISPM 15 fumigated pallets that are said to cost more and are harder to find. - To export that wine out of the EU you will need an EX1 (that can only be produced by a specialist broker costing around £75) and EAD document from the producer in the country that the wine came from. This is a UK requirement - To get the wine into the UK means going through the Chief system, which was previously only used for wines from non-EU countries, and have a C88 document – if you are bringing wine in duty deferred or duty paid. A C88 also requires a broker to process costing a further £50 to £75. - If you are importing the wine bonded then you need a movement guarantee (that costs around £50) and put it on a UK EMCS movement document. Or pay for a haulier’s movement guarantee - It means every shipment of wine now incurs a fixed cost of at around least £125 to £150 in customs fees. - If you do manage to get all your paper work right it is currently taking around six to eight weeks shipped from the EU, four weeks longer than before. Can't say I've noticed a particular rise in the price of wine, but then SWMBO and I are mostly boycotting goods from the EU wherever there's a reasonable alternative. Wine is certainly one of those reasonable alternatives, with rest-of-world wine being quite excellent. We find Mudhouse from New Zealand every bit as good as any white from France we've ever bought, especially if you pronounce it "muh-dooze" as we do.
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michaelc
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Post by michaelc on Jun 11, 2021 17:14:19 GMT
Yep a shame its come to this.
Staunch Remainers in the UK and EU essentially saying "told you so" and doing nothing else about it. Staunch Brexiteers enjoying the severing of ties. Both apparently enjoying the disharmony.
Why the heck can't any member state leave and/or rejoin the club amicably? That's the root of the problem and it shows IMO the EU's institutions as they currently exist are rotten.
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Jun 11, 2021 17:53:42 GMT
Yep a shame its come to this. Staunch Remainers in the UK and EU essentially saying "told you so" and doing nothing else about it. Staunch Brexiteers enjoying the severing of ties. Both apparently enjoying the disharmony. Why the heck can't any member state leave and/or rejoin the club amicably? That's the root of the problem and it shows IMO the EU's institutions as they currently exist are rotten. The issue is with the manner in which the UK left. The leaving could have been FAR more amicable - except for May's red lines, then the ERG voting down the deal because it wasn't hard enough. Now numerous members of Johnson's own government are claiming that the deal THEY negotiated and signed is not what they wanted. Including Frost, the man who was in charge of negotiation, . As soon as May drew those red lines in October 2016, it was blindingly obvious to anybody with any semblance of a clue that there had to be a border one side of NI or the other - and that the land border was going to be a GFA shitstorm... That left precisely one alternative... and that's what we've got. Well, yes... Obvious results are obvious. As far as the EU goes... they've moved on. We have what we wanted, and what we negotiated. We are now subject to the third-country rules that we were heavily involved in writing when we were members. That's what we voted for. If we don't like it, how is it their problem? As far as remainers go... how can we do anything about it? We don't have political power. Johnson purged his party of dissenting voices prior to the 2019 election. Everybody with any power to do anything has drunk deep from the Farage ERG kool-aid. We aren't enjoying the disharmony. "This might not be the brexit you voted for, but it's the brexit we warned you about"
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JamesFrance
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Post by JamesFrance on Jun 12, 2021 7:04:48 GMT
It is such a pity that the Common Market was allowed to become the EU which inevitably led to it being a controlling organisation which interferes in every aspect of life. When France and the Netherlands voted against it in a constitution referendum in 2005 it just went ahead with most of it anyway by calling it the Lisbon Treaty.
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Jun 12, 2021 8:06:39 GMT
It is such a pity that the Common Market was allowed to become the EU You do realise that the change was defined, controlled, and agreed BY the member countries, right? Maastricht, remember that? John Major? That's what it was. Over-simplified to the point of being incorrect. There was a 2004 constitutional treaty, which was abandoned after France and NL rejected it at referenda - despite 16 countries having already agreed to it. Germany was part-way through agreeing at the time of abandonment, and 7 others hadn't got their own formal processes underway. The Lisbon Treaty came later, 2008/9. The Republic of Ireland was the only member state to hold a referendum on it. Every other country's governments agreed internally. Yes, the first referendum was "lost" by the EU. 53.4% against, 46.6% for, 53.1% turnout. And what happened? The treaty was renegotiated with Ireland's specific issues addressed... Abortion, military neutrality, one commissioner per member state (the constitutional treaty was reducing the number). And the second referendum? 67.1% in favour, 32.9% against, 59% turnout. BTW, one of the main similarities between the abandoned 2004 treaty and Lisbon was the introduction of a mechanism to leave...
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JamesFrance
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Post by JamesFrance on Jun 12, 2021 8:27:13 GMT
It is such a pity that the Common Market was allowed to become the EU You do realise that the change was defined, controlled, and agreed BY the member countries, right? Oh yes, by politicians. When the people were consulted they voted against so they stopped asking. I know the Irish were persuaded to vote again when they gave the wrong answer but in 2005 the EU pulled the voting once they saw how the French and Dutch voted.
I will nominate you for googler of the week.
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Jun 12, 2021 8:36:57 GMT
You do realise that the change was defined, controlled, and agreed BY the member countries, right? Oh yes, by politicians. Yes, the elected governments of the member countries. Who else do you think should do it? The newspapers? You do know that each country's government defines themselves how they decide approval for treaty change, right? BTW, the European Union Act 2011, introduced by Cameron's government, made it a legal requirement for the UK government to take any EU treaty changes to a referendum. They voted again - on a changed treaty, with their specific concerns addressed... No, they pulled the entire treaty... And started from scratch. The result of that re-start was Lisbon. Facts and reality can be so inconvenient to preconceptions, can't they? People have been trotting this same old inaccurate guff out for years. The reality hasn't changed.
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registerme
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Post by registerme on Jun 12, 2021 9:27:02 GMT
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Post by captainconfident on Jun 18, 2021 9:01:27 GMT
In Jnauary and February there were lots of stories like this about exporters having problems. However, I don't recall too many stories in the last 2 or 3 months.
The news item you linked to is about one shipment worth less than £10k, that was stopped at the port because of an error in the way that the product was labelled. The article contains vague and misleading comments about the effect of Brexit on trade with Sweden, such as:
- 80 percent of Swedish companies which trade with the UK have had or expect problems with post-Brexit bureaucracy (so possibly zero problems actually encountered too date)
- More than 40 percent of the companies said they’ve experienced or expect major problems with customs duties (so again possibly zero problems too date).
Overall, I don't dispute that Brexit has created additional hurdles to be cleared when trading with the EU, but I don't think this particular example should be used to justify claims that we are all going to hell in a handcart.
"one shipment worth less than 10K" - welcome to the world of the small company trading for 28 years in the Single Market. This was the average size of a shipment for my former UK company, about 4-8 of these a week export, similar import. This was how the was small manufacturers and producers got their products distributed across the EU, put together into consignments by companies like mine, delivered direct to retail in any town of the whole EU without any checks. "Error in the way that the product was labelled" could be anything in one component of a multi item consignment in a thick sheaf of documents that now has to accompany, as these docs are compiled by the producer, the shipper the transport company, a minefield of potential errors and a magnate for customs officials. This is the export killing truth of Brexit. Now those of you who can't recall any stories of exporters having problems in the last 2-3 months can read HMRC's analysis of the collapse of exports in this sector. www.theguardian.com/business/2021/jun/18/british-food-and-drink-exports-to-eu-fall-by-2bn-in-first-quarter-of-2021
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agent69
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Post by agent69 on Jun 18, 2021 10:43:32 GMT
But the link you posted isn't about the last 2 - 3 months, it relates to the first 3 months of the year
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starfished
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Post by starfished on Jun 19, 2021 16:56:41 GMT
Logistics of a different sort... www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-57534918I personally find this fascinating for two reasons... (i) the religious like defence some had for the EU (and I say this as a firm remain voter) at the referendum and (ii) the comment a friend made once that the EU was sold as "just" a trade deal by UK politicians to the UK public when even right at the start it never was that, if we had been paying enough attention. This then set us all up inevitably for the subsequent shenanigans...
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