benaj
Member of DD Central
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Post by benaj on Oct 23, 2020 16:08:27 GMT
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Post by geldregiertdiewelt on Oct 23, 2020 17:52:00 GMT
it's a follow-up to this p2pindependentforum.com/thread/17783/mintos-regulated-marketplace-investingAnd as I said in August: for me this is all stuff Mintos have to do because there's no way to have consistent, profitable business if you're just a loan broker mainly depending on retail investors. Big LOs (Aventus, Creditstar, ...) prefer to top their funding from bonds with some retail investor money, which they can collect themselves (on Peerberry, Lendermarket, ...). They don't need Mintos for that. All that's left for Mintos is Mogo (and other LOs which are kind of the same group of companies as Mintos) and a roster of small LOs which range from shady to shitty. So, my guess is that Mintos want to evolve into some kind of bonds issuer to collect money from institutionals and thus escape the decay of p2p marketplace lending. It will be interesting to see which LOs can follow that move. And I would expect that the change in handling accrued interest will turn away some retail investors because they simply don't understand. |
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Post by geldregiertdiewelt on Aug 28, 2021 21:10:56 GMT
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Post by rahafoorum on Aug 29, 2021 6:36:36 GMT
And I would expect that the change in handling accrued interest will turn away some retail investors because they simply don't understand. Not only don't understand, but to me it seems that it'll also affect taxation in a negative way in some countries. Effectively reducing return even more than before.
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Post by captainconfident on May 19, 2022 11:44:45 GMT
Finally, an email from Mintos about taxation of Notes. Withholding tax 20% - 10% - possibly 5%.
In my domicile of Belgium, the tax I pay is a flat 30% of the net interest after withholding tax.
So while I could live with losing the 5%, if it's more I would need to try to reclaim it under the double taxation treaty.
From what I understand of withholding tax, it is difficult to reclaim. Anyone know the process?
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Post by rahafoorum on May 20, 2022 10:23:22 GMT
From what I understand of withholding tax, it is difficult to reclaim. Anyone know the process? If it's similar to the process involving dividends, then it depends on the country where taxes were withheld and possibly your residence as well. You will probably also have to pay some fees for documents or whatnot and waste a few (hundred) nerve cells during the process.
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Post by wiseclerk on May 25, 2022 13:18:40 GMT
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fric
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Post by fric on Jul 5, 2022 9:48:43 GMT
I have been away from quite some time now, just checked what Mintos is offering. It seems like it's pretty much the same thing as before, it's just that individual loans (e.g. personal loans of loan originator x) are bundled up together into a note. So you are pretty much still investing in the same loans as before.
Seems like the main drive for this was want/need to become a regulated player. Gives more credibility and potential for more partners in the future maybe?
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Post by geldregiertdiewelt on Jul 19, 2022 10:40:22 GMT
... Gives more credibility and potential for more partners in the future maybe? Obviously not in the perception of the users: If you look at Cumulated Loans Funded on Mintos' statistics page www.mintos.com/en/statistics/loan-statistics/ you'll find that funding is going down dramatically, investors obviously walking away in droves. To avoid double taxation with notes you need to get and submit a certificate of residence, an administrative burden which comes on top of - geopolitical uncertainty in many of Mintos loan creation markets and - their notoriously bungled management of distressed or rouge LOs. For many (including me) this is now obviously too much. They should have waited with Notes introduction until the other issues have eased. To start notes now was a textbook level management fail.
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ukinvestor
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Post by ukinvestor on Oct 13, 2022 7:28:46 GMT
I saw an intriguing question recently on another forum:
Is the change from loans to notes a necessary consequence of the regulation or is the regulation the enabler that allows the platforms to move to notes for their own benefit.
Any opinions?
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fric
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Post by fric on Oct 14, 2022 8:12:38 GMT
I saw an intriguing question recently on another forum: Is the change from loans to notes a necessary consequence of the regulation or is the regulation the enabler that allows the platforms to move to notes for their own benefit. Any opinions? Well, my understanding was the Mintos wanted to get regulated so there is no grey area/shadows that would make some people think it's a sketchy business. During the early years of Mintos, there were some rubbing going on between Mintos and Financial regulators and such. I think at one point the banking/investment regulator came out with a statement that Mintos is not licensed and you shouldn't be investing with them, but since technically it was a p2p lending platform which wasn't mentioned in any legislation at all and is not necessarily investing in the traditional sense, they never took any action against Mintos. So instead they sort of worked together to improve the legislation. My guess is that Mintos and the regulator made an agreement that Mintos has to get regulated in some way in the long-term. So I would say the change from loans to notes is a consequence of them getting regulated.
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Post by rahafoorum on Oct 15, 2022 5:49:18 GMT
Well, my understanding was the Mintos wanted to get regulated so there is no grey area/shadows that would make some people think it's a sketchy business. EU actually created some regulation for P2P. Their change is probably related to this I'd assume.
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ukinvestor
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Post by ukinvestor on Oct 16, 2022 18:29:07 GMT
Found the answer on the Latvian Financial and Capital Market Commission web site. P2P lending is not a regulated activity in Latvia. Going forward only regulated activities are permitted in Latvia. Regulated activities are things like: - reception and transmission of orders in relation of one or more financial instruments,
- execution of orders on behalf of clients,
- placing of financial instruments without a firm commitment basis,
- provision of services related to underwriting and currency exchange services if they are related to the provision of investment services.
This means platforms have either to move to another country as many did or switch to offering financial instruments, e.g. notes.
Therefore, the move to notes is a necessary consequence of becoming regulated.
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fric
Member of DD Central
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Post by fric on Oct 17, 2022 7:02:13 GMT
Found the answer on the Latvian Financial and Capital Market Commission web site. P2P lending is not a regulated activity in Latvia. Going forward only regulated activities are permitted in Latvia. Regulated activities are things like: - reception and transmission of orders in relation of one or more financial instruments,
- execution of orders on behalf of clients,
- placing of financial instruments without a firm commitment basis,
- provision of services related to underwriting and currency exchange services if they are related to the provision of investment services.
This means platforms have either to move to another country as many did or switch to offering financial instruments, e.g. notes.
Therefore, the move to notes is a necessary consequence of becoming regulated.
Yeah, pretty much. I can't find it on google anymore, but there was some rubbing between the Commission and Mintos in like 2015 or 2016. So yeah, them finally getting regulated has been a long process in the making.
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Post by wiseclerk on Nov 7, 2022 8:19:15 GMT
Withholding tax will be lowered in a week
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