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Post by bracknellboy on Nov 6, 2020 5:47:31 GMT
With regard to returning on SA101 form, I think this is where I have previously screwed up. I recall I've looked at that form, and have seen no obvious entry to put P2P in and have therefore reverted to lumping it in with bank interest. Interestingly, having gone back and looked, I had put the following in the notes section of my return: There is a considerable drop in Untaxed UK Interest compared to my 2018 tax return. The main reason for this is that I
had investments in the P2P lending sector. Like many others lending on 36H loans in P2P I have experienced
considerable losses which has significantly reduced net earnings.What is also interesting is that in their letter to me they have lumped both banks and P2P filings into the same list of income from UK financial institutions. They haven't said: we've been informed you had x,y,x from P2P but you didn't complete an SA101 form
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Greenwood2
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Post by Greenwood2 on Nov 6, 2020 6:39:37 GMT
With regard to returning on SA101 form, I think this is where I have previously screwed up. I recall I've looked at that form, and have seen no obvious entry to put P2P in and have therefore reverted to lumping it in with bank interest. Interestingly, having gone back and looked, I had put the following in the notes section of my return: There is a considerable drop in Untaxed UK Interest compared to my 2018 tax return. The main reason for this is that I
had investments in the P2P lending sector. Like many others lending on 36H loans in P2P I have experienced
considerable losses which has significantly reduced net earnings.What is also interesting is that in their letter to me they have lumped both banks and P2P filings into the same list of income from UK financial institutions. They haven't said: we've been informed you had x,y,x from P2P but you didn't complete an SA101 form As I said above they didn't seem too bothered about me putting it in the wrong place. I think the final sentence in their last letter mentioned (for the first time) putting it in the right box. It was the fact that they couldn't reconcile the amount I declared with the information they had from the platforms that they didn't like. Edit: I did put the amount of P2P income declared in the notes, so they could clearly see how much there was included with the bank income. They do immediately lump the P2P income (in the right place on the form) with the bank income when you look at the tax calculation!
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Post by bracknellboy on Nov 6, 2020 8:18:18 GMT
With regard to returning on SA101 form, I think this is where I have previously screwed up. I recall I've looked at that form, and have seen no obvious entry to put P2P in and have therefore reverted to lumping it in with bank interest. Interestingly, having gone back and looked, I had put the following in the notes section of my return: There is a considerable drop in Untaxed UK Interest compared to my 2018 tax return. The main reason for this is that I
had investments in the P2P lending sector. Like many others lending on 36H loans in P2P I have experienced
considerable losses which has significantly reduced net earnings.What is also interesting is that in their letter to me they have lumped both banks and P2P filings into the same list of income from UK financial institutions. They haven't said: we've been informed you had x,y,x from P2P but you didn't complete an SA101 form As I said above they didn't seem too bothered about me putting it in the wrong place. I think the final sentence in their last letter mentioned (for the first time) putting it in the right box. It was the fact that they couldn't reconcile the amount I declared with the information they had from the platforms that they didn't like. Edit: I did put the amount of P2P income declared in the notes, so they could clearly see how much there was included with the bank income. They do immediately lump the P2P income (in the right place on the form) with the bank income when you look at the tax calculation! In the early days of P2P i used to put in more comprehensive notes. Wishing I had this time around.....ah well I've got some work to do to get stuff into a digestible form.
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Post by dan1 on Nov 6, 2020 9:44:59 GMT
With regard to returning on SA101 form, I think this is where I have previously screwed up. I recall I've looked at that form, and have seen no obvious entry to put P2P in and have therefore reverted to lumping it in with bank interest. Interestingly, having gone back and looked, I had put the following in the notes section of my return: There is a considerable drop in Untaxed UK Interest compared to my 2018 tax return. The main reason for this is that I
had investments in the P2P lending sector. Like many others lending on 36H loans in P2P I have experienced
considerable losses which has significantly reduced net earnings.What is also interesting is that in their letter to me they have lumped both banks and P2P filings into the same list of income from UK financial institutions. They haven't said: we've been informed you had x,y,x from P2P but you didn't complete an SA101 form I've not been following the ins and outs of your situation but on a more general point I would only expect HMRC to contact you if you owed more tax than your return indicates. That is, HMRC calculate the tax due from all of their sources of income, dividends etc ("CONNECT" database IIRC - worth a Google) and if it exceeds the tax calculated from the information in your SA then they'll get in contact to (effectively) recover the underpayment. This is grossly simplified of course but it underlines the point that HMRC don't really care about which box you put P2P income in but it may add a bit of complexity when sorting it out with them. I assume the difference in the calculations is significant enough for HMRC to resolve it. In fact, given they're spending public money you'd more than hope that was the case! I guess it's unnerving to receive this sort of letter from HMRC but it's worth remembering (and I know you know this) that they're not ogres and in the vast majority of cases will work with you to resolve issues like this. I'd of had the same reaction to yourself mind you  Good luck. Edit: I forgot to say that in time this information should be pre-filled on your SA. No help to you now I'm afraid.
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james100
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Post by james100 on Nov 6, 2020 11:08:06 GMT
I've not been following the ins and outs of your situation but on a more general point I would only expect HMRC to contact you if you owed more tax than your return indicates. That is, HMRC calculate the tax due from all of their sources of income, dividends etc ( "CONNECT" database IIRC - worth a Google) and if it exceeds the tax calculated from the information in your SA then they'll get in contact to (effectively) recover the underpayment. This is grossly simplified of course but it underlines the point that HMRC don't really care about which box you put P2P income in but it may add a bit of complexity when sorting it out with them. <snip> More on that here: www.taxation.co.uk/articles/hmrc-s-connect-computer-and-investigations extract: Sources of data used by Connect
There are more than 30 different databases available in Connect for analysis although HMRC does not disclose all its sources of information.
The databases include the following.
Tax returns (including VAT, PAYE, income tax and corporation tax returns).
Bank accounts and pensions.
Credit reference agencies.
Credit and debit card accounts.
Online payment providers such as PayPal.
Foreign tax jurisdictions (including treaties and automatic exchange agreements) and the common reporting standard.
Government agencies such as Companies House, the Land Registry and the Border Agency.
Online social networking.
Property websites such as Zoopla and Rightmove.
Amazon, eBay, Gumtree and similar sales websites.
Google Street View.
Council tax records.
DVLA records.
DWP records.
Electoral roll.
Insurance companies.
Charities Commission.
Flight sales and passenger information.
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aju
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Post by aju on Nov 6, 2020 16:14:14 GMT
Blimey are we all living in Room 101 after all then with that list of our info being passed to hmrc. Mind you it would useful if that database was able to track the big tech companies as well as they surely would be more lucrative once the automation has got most of the rest of us.  Thankfully both myself and Mrs aju have very simple tax return info so will hopefully be immune from this stuff but one never knows. I have cross check records for all our taxable commitments especially banks and investments and keep spreads of what we owe and don't owe and cross check against what HMRC thinks is correct. At the moment its all very simple as I just move as much tax based income across to Mrs Aju who is a non tax payer at present. In my case I have found just adding notes onto the online hmrc tax and NI areas was also very easy. It is interesting that over the last couple of years hmrc have become much closer to my figures as the banks stuff has been loaded. Anyway I agree with others the HMRC people have always been very helpful and before it became more automated for us I just used to send letters detailing our non pension tax estimates from our perspective, mostly to claim tax paid before banks switched to gross interest. Now that we again have a situation with some bank accounts like Hfx paying already taxed amounts then we'll both probably end up having to fill out R40's to claim this back. I've just remembered that with the reduction in P2P and the seriously reduced amounts of investments then I had to inform HMRC that we are potentially paying over the odds for the current tax year. They corrected this without query so far but i usually check last year and the years before to see if there are any avenues for refunds or worse underpayment that needs correcting. We also lost quite a bit of dividend returns too but we had that covered by the allowance for each of us. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 9, 2020 10:27:14 GMT
Good luck, I recommend talking to HMRC asap. I hope I don't get to be investigated. Many years ago I forgot to fill in a tax form for 3 years (life was too busy). Once I had twigged that I was behind, I wrote and explained that I needed to catch up. Response was very positive and supportive, no fine or anything, still I didn't owe lots.
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aju
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Post by aju on Nov 9, 2020 15:38:07 GMT
Good luck, I recommend talking to HMRC asap. I hope I don't get to be investigated. Many years ago I forgot to fill in a tax form for 3 years (life was too busy). Once I had twigged that I was behind, I wrote and explained that I needed to catch up. Response was very positive and supportive, no fine or anything, still I didn't owe lots. I thought it was only valid for 6 year previous or is that just claiming back overpaid tax!
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Post by bracknellboy on Nov 16, 2020 17:07:50 GMT
OK, back to this issue. no I haven't yet talked to HMRC but I did sent them an early 'holding' email pointing out the P2P element. And I have now done cross checks on everything so am in position to sort out. I was thinking of amending my tax return and then talking to them, but .........
....looking to add an SA101 form to an amended 18-19 tax return. But I'm now recalling or realising why I may have not actually filed one previously..
This is what the guidance says about putting P2P into the bit regarding "Other UK income, Interest from gilt-edged and other UK securities, deeply discounted securities and accrued income profits"
Now I know my smarts aren't what they used to be, but I'm trying to figure out how this should be filled out, in my circumstances. Those circumstances being that in 18-19 the losses for which I am claiming tax relief outweigh interest received: I suspect I'm not the only one on here in that position in either 18/19 or perhaps 19/20.
The instructions for SA101 are:
box 3 - interest received gross less any bad debt relief from all platforms
box 1 - interest received net less any bad debt relief from all platforms
box 2 - full amount of tax deducted from the interest
So I think in my situation, box 3 would have a big fat zero in it; box 1 would have a big fat zero in it; and box 2 would have a big fat zero in it.
Am I misinterpreting ?
It does mean of course - assuming that I've interpreted this correctly - that contrary to what I had been thinking, completing an SA101 would not have helped HMRC one iota to have identified that a number of 'feeds' they had w.r.t. investment income might correlate to p2p income against which I had offset losses.
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james100
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Post by james100 on Nov 16, 2020 18:23:54 GMT
It's just a negative figure in box 3 that gets netted off against savings interest further down the calculation isn't it? (with a note to clarify what you've done) Can you do that directly in the HMRC filing interface?
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Post by bracknellboy on Nov 18, 2020 10:05:21 GMT
It's just a negative figure in box 3 that gets netted off against savings interest further down the calculation isn't it? (with a note to clarify what you've done) Can you do that directly in the HMRC filing interface? ahha.
Firstly I've only just spotted this post (thanks james100)
Secondly, it had not even occurred to me to put a negative number in there. I was of course considering it in isolation since losses on P2P can't be offset against any other income (well certainly not any I have) so it didn't even occur to me that I could/should put a negative in there. Other notes elsewhere talk about no need to state what you are 'carrying forward' hence another reason I didn't think about putting in a -ve. But of course if I take the explanatory text at face value then that is what I could do.
My other option is to simply put a zero in and then put something in the additional notes explaining why its a zero, and perhaps declaring my gross number in those notes.
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james100
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Post by james100 on Dec 2, 2020 16:53:58 GMT
It's just a negative figure in box 3 that gets netted off against savings interest further down the calculation isn't it? (with a note to clarify what you've done) Can you do that directly in the HMRC filing interface? ahha.
Firstly I've only just spotted this post (thanks james100 )
Secondly, it had not even occurred to me to put a negative number in there. I was of course considering it in isolation since losses on P2P can't be offset against any other income (well certainly not any I have) so it didn't even occur to me that I could/should put a negative in there. Other notes elsewhere talk about no need to state what you are 'carrying forward' hence another reason I didn't think about putting in a -ve. But of course if I take the explanatory text at face value then that is what I could do.
My other option is to simply put a zero in and then put something in the additional notes explaining why its a zero, and perhaps declaring my gross number in those notes.
Did you get it sorted out ok?
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Post by bracknellboy on Dec 3, 2020 9:26:58 GMT
Not quite yet. I did all the digging I needed to with the banks to sort out any discrepancies (minor compared to the P2P stuff that was being wrongly highlighted by HMRC), and went back through all the P2P stuff to make sure that I can present everything in a neat and easily digestible way should I need to. I had some other "life stuff "come up which meant I didn't get to work this all through, but I am now ready to make a correction to the tax return, and add notes to explain things. So I'll be doing that over the next few days.
I did email them almost straight away, point out the P2P bit, so as to hopefully keep the wolves at bay, and asked them on best way to discuss it further with them (email first, then call etc.): but I got absolutely no response to that.
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Post by Ace on Dec 3, 2020 9:40:23 GMT
I wrote them a letter a couple of months back with a paper tax return (It was more advantageous for me to reject the personal allowance this year, but that's not possible with the online SA). After a month without reply I gave them a call. They said they had a backlog and that I should expect a reply to my letter by the end of Dec. So, looks like they have roughly a 3 month backlog currently.
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