agent69
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Post by agent69 on Dec 1, 2020 13:29:13 GMT
Given the current climate, it wouldn't surprise me if "No more P2P" won it by a mile... Given the history of these polls does this in fact mean, this is the wrong choice ? Bitcoin hits new all time high
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trevor
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Post by trevor on Dec 1, 2020 17:27:46 GMT
My direct contribution pension
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dead-money
Rocket to the Moon
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Post by dead-money on Dec 1, 2020 23:55:18 GMT
Gold, Platinum, Palladium and Rhodium...
My Precious
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dead-money
Rocket to the Moon
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Post by dead-money on Dec 1, 2020 23:56:41 GMT
My direct contribution pension Well that's just a tax wrapper; you know you can invest that in P2P still
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firedog
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Post by firedog on Dec 3, 2020 14:20:37 GMT
Adding to Loanpad and CrowdProperty.
Reducing Assetz Capital and Ratesetter (when they allow me to).
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Post by WestonKevTMP on Dec 24, 2020 8:39:09 GMT
Can somebody remind me how long ago it was when we had a 'who are you going to invest with' pole, and Col /MT came top? It was 2017. See here. This is a sorry tale. Of the 8 most obviously preferred platforms... 4 have gone bust/administration/fraudsters. 1 has been sold and no longer takes retail deposits. 1 is primarily now a CBILS lender, and so I'm presuming has restricted retail lenders. 2 remained (Ablrate and Unbolted) I've never personally used and haven't been following. There are good opportunities remaining, but really they are for professional investments or family firms that can do the required level of due diligence. There isn't really anything left for the retail investors that need very low risk without FSCS protection. Everything comes with risk for the rewards, and this table proves that point. Kevin.
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aju
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Post by aju on Dec 24, 2020 10:08:32 GMT
This is a sorry tale. Of the 8 most obviously preferred platforms... 4 have gone bust/administration/fraudsters. 1 has been sold and no longer takes retail deposits. 1 is primarily now a CBILS lender, and so I'm presuming has restricted retail lenders. 2 remained (Ablrate and Unbolted) I've never personally used and haven't been following. There are good opportunities remaining, but really they are for professional investments or family firms that can do the required level of due diligence. There isn't really anything left for the retail investors that need very low risk without FSCS protection. Everything comes with risk for the rewards, and this table proves that point. Kevin. Thanks for that comment it made me change my settings as whilst I still have money locked into Zopa and RS is almost done for me it is clear to me that I am not one for the p2p wildwest at present so i removed my "Other P2P" answer and settled on a single vote (The last item). With any luck once all funds are recovered we will still be up on the game.
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keystone
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Post by keystone on Dec 24, 2020 16:31:05 GMT
This is a sorry tale. Of the 8 most obviously preferred platforms... 4 have gone bust/administration/fraudsters. 1 has been sold and no longer takes retail deposits. 1 is primarily now a CBILS lender, and so I'm presuming has restricted retail lenders. 2 remained (Ablrate and Unbolted) I've never personally used and haven't been following. There are good opportunities remaining, but really they are for professional investments or family firms that can do the required level of due diligence. There isn't really anything left for the retail investors that need very low risk without FSCS protection. Everything comes with risk for the rewards, and this table proves that point. Kevin. Some of what you say is valid, Kevin, but you lack context - the attrition caused by the aggressive new rules of a lazy regulator not up to the job in late 2019, which left a liquidity issue for the sector. The same regulator that caused the collapse of Coll, imo. Closely followed by a little virus problem which you may not have noticed, but which posed an existential threat to some operators. Then you include two survivors in your sorry tale on the basis that you have not been following them. One of them is second in this poll. Don't you think as a professional you should be looking at the second choice of the poll if you wish to pontificate in this way? <Snip> The second is being sued by a borrower and will likely go into administration if they lose the case.
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blender
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Post by blender on Dec 25, 2020 0:04:59 GMT
I don't want to go on more, but having looked through the posts now it seems to me that Unbolted need and deserve the support of their lenders. What confuses and disappoints me is that if the list of eight is supposed to be the same eight as listed in the poll, then Unbolted is not in the poll list - so how is it one of the two remaining? Also where is Assetz, because it does not fit any of the other six in Kevin's categories? And where is Crowd Property, or is that mistaken for Unbolted?
Anyway, this has been a very difficult year for a large number of businesses, and we can expect a rather harsh shake-out of p2p, which runs on just a small margin of lent funds. If all we do here is generally knock the sector which we have supported in better times, as the platforms have generally have supported us, then we will get the p2p sector that we deserve - ie none. Best pleased would be the banks and the FCA, who would rather not have to bother with 'innovative finance', and with the workload and the risk to reputation involved.
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ilmoro
Member of DD Central
'Wondering which of the bu***rs to blame, and watching for pigs on the wing.' - Pink Floyd
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Post by ilmoro on Dec 25, 2020 0:22:12 GMT
I don't want to go on more, but having looked through the posts now it seems to me that Unbolted need and deserve the support of their lenders. What confuses and disappoints me is that if the list of eight is supposed to be the same eight as listed in the poll, then Unbolted is not in the poll list - so how is it one of the two remaining? Also where is Assetz, because it does not fit any of the other six in Kevin's categories? And where is Crowd Property, or is that mistaken for Unbolted?
Anyway, this has been a very difficult year for a large number of businesses, and we can expect a rather harsh shake-out of p2p, which runs on just a small margin of lent funds. If all we do here is generally knock the sector which we have supported in better times, as the platforms have generally have supported us, then we will get the p2p sector that we deserve - ie none. Best pleased would be the banks and the FCA, who would rather not have to bother with 'innovative finance', and with the workload and the risk to reputation involved. I fear you are looking at the wrong poll. Seems to me that Kev was referring to the 2017 poll as he was replying to the post that linked to it. So for the record the platforms he was referring to were Col, Lendy, FS & MT RS AC, slightly unfairly characterised based on the current position rather than the clearly stated plan going forward ABL & UnB
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blender
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Post by blender on Dec 25, 2020 12:37:49 GMT
Ah, the 2017 poll. I missed that having replied to a later quote. It is coincidence that eight platforms were listed in the current thread and unfortunate that Kevin did not name the six. Apologies to Kevin for that misunderstanding, but I stick with my general points going forward. We need some positivity about the platforms which are supporting our lending or trying hard to. Merry Xmas.
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p2pfan
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Post by p2pfan on Jan 24, 2021 23:04:40 GMT
These polls need to obviously be taken with a pinch of salt, but are interesting and useful.
I was considering opening an account with Kuflink and am curious to know why Kuflink comes 9th out of 10 companies?
Have you had a negative experience with them?
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Post by Ace on Jan 25, 2021 0:24:20 GMT
These polls need to obviously be taken with a pinch of salt, but are interesting and useful. I was considering opening an account with Kuflink and am curious to know why Kuflink comes 9th out of 10 companies? Have you had a negative experience with them? I'm happy with my Kuflink investments, but until recently I've only been investing there for referral cashback and for some added diversity, though I used to invest more there when they had their 20% skin-in-the-game first loss on every loan. The problem for me was that I've always seen them as very similar to CrowdProperty, but have scored them slightly lower on almost every criteria. K are: a newer platform, a smaller platform, their average LTV is higher, and their average rates to investors are lower. And, subjectively, I rate CP better for customer support and feel that they would be more proficient at completing development projects if needed. In all of those points the difference between them is small, and the subjective points are really little more than a gut feel. Some points that differentiate the two are: only K has an SM (a big plus for K, but not something I've used as I spread my investments over many loans, so there are always a few that will pay back soon); only K has referral bonuses (not as generous as when I first joined, but a welcome bonus); K don't allow self selected loans in their IFISA, CP do. K allow much smaller investments in each loan, so it's easier for small investors to diversify than on CP. However, the main reason that I'm currently adding more funds to K than to CP is that it's MUCH easier to invest and diversify ones funds in K than CP. CP are currently a victim of their own success. In one of CP's loans last week lenders were only allocated 2.2% of the amount that they wanted to invest. Without careful management cash drag on CP could end up dragging ones returns there below those on K. I don't invest in the auto-invest accounts on K because they invest in their higher tier loans, which I think are very poorly priced for the risk. The tiers are very similar to legal charges. I.e. Tier 1 is similar to a first legal charge, Tier 2 to a second legal charge, etc. I say "similar" as they are actually all first legal charges (since Kuflink will own the legal charge on investors behalf for all tiers), but, in the every of default lower tier lenders would get all of their cash back before higher tier lenders see any of theirs. K usually only add a 0.2% premium for the higher tiers, which is much smaller than other sites where the premium would be a few percent for the extra risk. One other thing to note is that I feel the auto-invest accounts on K are very poorly explained. Despite reading everything on the site I'm really not sure how the auto accounts behave in the event of defaults, particularly how this can effect the repayment at the end of the loan term. I have invested a small amount in their 5 year account to try and understand how it operates from the inside. In short, I think K are an honest and trustworthy platform that I'm happy to invest with, despite the caveats above.
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p2pfan
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Post by p2pfan on Jan 25, 2021 0:43:51 GMT
Thank you Ace, that is an incredibly useful and frank appraisal of Kuflink. I agree the auto-invest accounts seem to be largely opaque and it's hard to make sense of what would happen in the case of loan defaults. I get the feeling that with K many things are done on an ad hoc basis, as tends to be the case with smaller businesses. "I don't invest in the auto-invest accounts on K because they invest in their higher tier loans, which I think are very poorly priced for the risk." - I understood everything you said, apart from this. Does this mean that the higher tier loans are not invested into from the auto-invest accounts please? Is that why you don't invest into them? Or is there another reason you don't like the auto-invest products? In terms of the "up to x%" that K quote on their auto-invest loan products, I'm highly cynical about the "up to". In the P2P space, TheHouseCrowd are the gold medalists with their "up to"s, prominently stating "up to 10% p.a." when launching loans and then ending up paying FAR less in the end. So, do you know, what rates Kuflink may be currently paying on their 1, 3 and 5 year auto-invest loans please? Thanks again!
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Post by Ace on Jan 25, 2021 0:59:47 GMT
Thank you Ace , that is an incredibly useful and frank appraisal of Kuflink. I agree the auto-invest accounts seem to be largely opaque and it's hard to make sense of what would happen in the case of loan defaults. I get the feeling that with K many things are done on an ad hoc basis, as tends to be the case with smaller businesses. "I don't invest in the auto-invest accounts on K because they invest in their higher tier loans, which I think are very poorly priced for the risk." - I understood everything you said, apart from this. Does this mean that the higher tier loans are not invested into from the auto-invest accounts please? Is that why you don't invest into them? Or is there another reason you don't like the auto-invest products? In terms of the "up to x%" that K quote on their auto-invest loan products, I'm highly cynical about the "up to". In the P2P space, TheHouseCrowd are the gold medalists with their "up to"s, prominently stating "up to 10% p.a." when launching loans and then ending up paying FAR less in the end. So, do you know, what rates Kuflink may be currently paying on their 1, 3 and 5 year auto-invest loans please? Thanks again! You're welcome. The higher tier loans are invested into in the auto-invest accounts. I think these are too high a risk for the rates paid. I won't invest in tiered loans above tier 1 as self selected investments, and don't like that the auto-invest accounts do invest in higher tiers, particularly as I don't understand how defaults are handled in these accounts. The one small 5 year auto-invest account that I'm in did pay exactly 7% at the end of the first year. Though I had to contact their CS to get this payment as the interest was being automatically compounded. I was very confused because the website said that I had been paid some interest, but there was no such payment to my account, hence I contacted them for am explanation. Apparently, you can choose to have interest paid annually or compounded but again, this is not explained anywhere on the website and your setting is not shown anywhere either.
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