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Post by martin44 on Dec 8, 2020 23:25:06 GMT
Its (blm) obviously a contentious issue at the moment, where do you stand? Personally i am a massive advocate and supporter of Black lives matter.... but i do not support the BLM. If the milwall booing was aimed at the political aspect of "BLM" then i agree.
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IFISAcava
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Post by IFISAcava on Dec 8, 2020 23:58:54 GMT
Its (blm) obviously a contentious issue at the moment, where do you stand? Personally i am a massive advocate and supporter of Black lives matter.... but i do not support the BLM. If the milwall booing was aimed at the political aspect of "BLM" then i agree. I think subtle differentiation between the message (blm) and the messenger (BLM) are not well suited to being expressed at football matches. I think booing even if you disagree with players taking the knee is so obviously wrong (would it be right for people with a disagreement with the political motivations behind World War 1 or the Royal Legion to boo players giving a minute's silence on Remembrance Sunday?). And I think most of those booing were doing so with fairly obvious racial motivations, which weren't just based on the "political aspects" of BLM, given that racism remains sadly prevalent in some sections of some clubs, Millwall being one.
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Mike
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Post by Mike on Dec 9, 2020 6:24:43 GMT
They might well end up booing a remembrance silence if it was a popular enough opinion - and the silence was happening every single match month after month!
Although I'm woke-factor 11 (my son - my own flesh and blood - is a bame... In fact possibly double-bame given mixed race is double minority ethnic? Leave that for others to judge) I don't really get what the kneeling thing is trying to achieve or even what the core message is and how it relates to kneeling. There are so many persecuted groups in the world, kneeling down briefly each week for one group feels increasingly like a regular public sacrifice that excuses the previous week's racism.
I also agree football grounds are not the place for this kind of thing.
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Dec 9, 2020 7:52:20 GMT
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Dec 9, 2020 7:55:27 GMT
Personally i am a massive advocate and supporter of Black lives matter.... but i do not support the BLM. What is it about "the BLM" rather than "Black lives matter" that causes such a wide difference in your view?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2020 12:26:55 GMT
Some people only feel comfortable in small groups that look and behave like them. These insecure people take in other insecure people and look for outsiders to blame for their feeling of inadequacy.
Now what exactly about Millwall made me write that?
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Post by captainconfident on Dec 9, 2020 19:25:34 GMT
I'm not sure what could have motivated anyone to have asked this question. Taking the knee in football is highly appropriate in the context of stamping out racism in football. Unlike Rugby or other sports, football has a history of rascist outbursts from its fans. The FA is specifically trying to address the issue.
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firedog
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Post by firedog on Dec 9, 2020 21:38:05 GMT
I'm not sure what could have motivated anyone to have asked this question. Taking the knee in football is highly appropriate in the context of stamping out racism in football. Unlike Rugby or other sports, football has a history of rascist outbursts from its fans. The FA is specifically trying to address the issue. I can't speak to the motivation of the original post (and I don't know why blm and BLM are different) but the best way to stamp out racism is through the law. I doubt 'taking the knee' will have any effect greater than making football authorities feel better about themselves. It's tokenism, its meaning already obfuscated if it was ever clear. But it can now take its place next to the pre-match tannoy announcements that racist comments will not be tolerated, and the 'Red Card to Racism' initiative wheeled out every few months as something we can let slip quietly between our ears. I'm not sure why football supporters are considered so direly in need of education. I haven't heard a single racist comment in 30 years of watching my club; I've heard a few listening to our politicians. I do wonder, as an aside, if a self-reverential virtue has crept into football over the period I've been watching it (cf: the ballooning number of minute's silences). And as someone mentioned Remembrance Sunday, interesting that nobody used to argue about footballers wearing poppies – because nobody did in 1990. Armistice day had never been a part of football until it was introduced later that decade.
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Dec 9, 2020 22:33:25 GMT
...the best way to stamp out racism is through the law. Perhaps it's best not to hold our breath on that one, since it's Fifty Five Years since the first anti-racism legislation in the UK. www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1965/73/enacted ...and we're on (at least!) the fifth legislative iteration since then... Race Relations Act 1968 - which provoked Powell's "rivers of blood" speech Race Relations Act 1976 - which founded the Commission for Racial Equality Race Relations (Amendment) Act 2000 Equalities Act 2010
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Post by Deleted on Dec 10, 2020 12:13:27 GMT
I agree, the law is just a barrier, changing cultures is about person to preson conversations and communication. If taking a knee means people ask "why" then it has value in the conversation.
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toffeeboy
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Post by toffeeboy on Dec 10, 2020 14:08:45 GMT
I agree, the law is just a barrier, changing cultures is about person to preson conversations and communication. If taking a knee means people ask "why" then it has value in the conversation. Nobody is asking why anymore though and that is a lot of fans problems with it. Millwall fans were wrong to boo but taking a knee is now just something that is done at the start of a match. In my opinion it should have been done on the first weekend to show solidarity with anyone that has been abused not just BLM. If when crowds are allowed back into grounds in any decent numbers then a racist or any other abuse comes from the crowd then the players should do it again. We don't remember the fallen every week, we don't forget them but one match a season we choose to specifically remember because if we did it every week then it would also lose it's meaning. It is worth noting that QPR recognised this point at the start of the season and decided not to take a knee but don't remember much being said about it. They only did it against Millwall because of the booing at the previous match.
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travolta
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Post by travolta on Dec 10, 2020 22:34:59 GMT
oh,for goodness sake ,why should anyone HAVE to bow down. Its total virtue signalling cr@p . I'm booing with exasperation .
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Dec 11, 2020 8:02:38 GMT
oh,for goodness sake ,why should anyone HAVE to bow down. Its total virtue signalling cr@p . I'm booing with exasperation . Can I make a reading recommendation for you, travolta ? www.amazon.co.uk/Brit-ish-Race-Identity-Belonging/dp/1911214284You might not see the problem that BLM are trying to raise awareness of, but that's exactly why it needs to be done. If you know it's there, then you should know why it needs to be brought to the attention of those who don't. If you know it's there but don't want to see it, then...
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travolta
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Post by travolta on Dec 11, 2020 15:02:48 GMT
oh,for goodness sake ,why should anyone HAVE to bow down. Its total virtue signalling cr@p . I'm booing with exasperation . Can I make a reading recommendation for you, travolta ? www.amazon.co.uk/Brit-ish-Race-Identity-Belonging/dp/1911214284You might not see the problem that BLM are trying to raise awareness of, but that's exactly why it needs to be done. If you know it's there, then you should know why it needs to be brought to the attention of those who don't. If you know it's there but don't want to see it, then... Adrian,you live in Herefordshire for god's sake! Have you actually been to Millwall? Brits dont need 'racial awareness'. We are all in it together. Life is not in a book. Words fail me splutter................... Wander down to W.Africa and wave your book at whats going on down there. Its tribal,like football, only they kill each other.
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Dec 11, 2020 15:50:05 GMT
Can I make a reading recommendation for you, travolta ? www.amazon.co.uk/Brit-ish-Race-Identity-Belonging/dp/1911214284You might not see the problem that BLM are trying to raise awareness of, but that's exactly why it needs to be done. If you know it's there, then you should know why it needs to be brought to the attention of those who don't. If you know it's there but don't want to see it, then... Adrian,you live in Herefordshire for god's sake! Have you actually been to Millwall? Brits dont need 'racial awareness'. We are all in it together. Life is not in a book. Words fail me splutter................... Wander down to W.Africa and wave your book at whats going on down there. Its tribal,like football, only they kill each other. Umm... I haven't always lived here... Apart from anything else, I used to commute by bus along Well Hall Road regularly until a year or so before one of the bus stops along there got a little bit of press coverage thanks to some people who lived not far from me... And, lemme think, last time we visited the friend who lives about a mile from The Den (and a mile or so from where I was born) was earlier this year, thanks. That apart, thank you for proving my point so eloquently. "Oh, look, a squirrel."
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