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Post by meledor on Jun 2, 2016 13:56:01 GMT
Any corporate guarantees etc that a company offers over above its T&Cs are not to be treated as contractual and can be withdrawn. And this was the case here. Clearly Lendy is not 'with impunity saying that those guarantees exist' it is saying they do NOT exist anymore as we are no longer operating under the old structure.
It is not just "fine to mention the old T&Cs" it is essential because now the old structure has disappeared that's all you've got.
This loan was made under the old structure, not the new one. Those older assertions are part of what was used to induce lenders to lend to Lendy. If a platform offers such guarantees then withdraws them once they become relevant then I see no reason to use the platform because it will have demonstrated that it can't be trusted to act as it says it will act. In that circumstance I would recommend against use of the platform, citing the change as the reason why the platform can't be trusted. And of course none of my own money would go to via the platform, regardless of how good or otherwise its terms seem, because it would have been demonstrated that the terms can't be relied upon either.
Before the change lenders were rightly expressing considerable reservations about the old structure in that we were lending to Lendy which entailed extra uncertainty about the effectiveness of the security of a loan within the limited company position, as compared with a true P2P platform. Saving Stream moved to the new structure last September. In the document you refer to it states "this will now be a true P2P platform, the onus of repayment lies with the borrower and is no longer covered by Lendy Ltd’s corporate guarantee". The corporate guarantee no longer applies. I am not really sure what was meant by that and I'm not aware that it has been discussed on this forum - it was not mentioned here for instance when you would have thought it would been:
p2pindependentforum.com/thread/2639/convinced?page=2
I think it was maybe a case of saying "look, you have demanded that we move to a true P2P status which we have done but it means you lose the corporate advantages of the old structure". But whatever it was it no longer applies. Old loans are merely under the old T&Cs. The recent update on PBL20 confirms what I have always thought.
If you still disagree and as your second paragraph indicates you feel quite bad about this I suggest you take it up with SS directly.
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james
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Post by james on Jun 2, 2016 15:29:55 GMT
Old loans were not automatically moved to the new structure. Nor could they have been in my view because that would have been treating investors in those old loans unfairly by withdrawing the protections they had relied upon when investing. This was an issue that had considerable discussion at the time of the change.
There are some things that I don't think are problematic:
1. New loans in new structure.
2. New loans since 11 May 2016 not having monthly payments of interest in default.
3. Secondary market purchases of loans since 11 May not having monthly payments of interest in default.
In all of those case the person doing the lending was aware of the terms before their investment decision so there's no changing of terms consideration.
I also wouldn't have any issues with:
4. Secondary market purchases of old loans being under new loan conditions, provided this change was notified to secondary market buyers before the purchase was made. However I'm not sure that this is contractually possible based on the loan contracts involved and being traded, since those would presumably be old contracts.
I don't have money invested in this loan so my own reactions are going to be based on Lendy's conduct, particularly with regard to sticking to the terms agreed at the time a loan was made. It's a straightforward ethics and risk calculation for me and it'll affect among other things whether circa 100k goes from me to investments with Lendy or not. It'll be not if I don't think Lendy is committed to sticking to the terms it agreed at the outset. I rely on the platform diligence and accuracy in this as in loan descriptions and I wouldn't feel I could trust those things either.
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bigal
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Post by bigal on Jun 2, 2016 16:29:11 GMT
Ladies and gentlemen, headless chickens.
Perhaps a look at the loan updates tab as supposed to this protracted, largely painful conjecture would at least settle some of your key squabbles.
SS appear to be making it quite clear that they intend on communicating such details directly through the official channel - their website - rather than other methods (ie. this forum).
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Liz
Member of DD Central
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Post by Liz on Jun 2, 2016 16:34:45 GMT
Ladies and gentlemen, headless chickens. Perhaps a look at the loan updates tab as supposed to this protracted, largely painful conjecture would at least settle some of your key squabbles. SS appear to be making it quite clear that they intend on communicating such details directly through the official channel - their website - rather than other methods (ie. this forum). I have has defaulted p2p loans on other sites, and it's shocking how angry those investors have got against the site. Defaults will happen, but a high interest rate will more than compensate.
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cooling_dude
Bye Bye's for the PPI
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Post by cooling_dude on Jun 2, 2016 16:35:43 GMT
Ladies and gentlemen, headless chickens. Perhaps a look at the loan updates tab as supposed to this protracted, largely painful conjecture would at least settle some of your key squabbles. SS appear to be making it quite clear that they intend on communicating such details directly through the official channel - their website - rather than other methods (ie. this forum). Yes; I noted the update in a post a couple of pages ago (I'm not getting involved to much in this thread, as everybody is going around in circles). I'm happy to see the updates page used more, and hope it continues. However; I would still like them to engage with the community (via the is forum) but can understand after all the muck that has been slung their way over the last week (legal action... really guys....  ) if we never see them again...  > Come back savingstream ... most of us still love you  ... can we tempt you back... I have a nice bottle of VSOP brandy; oldgrumpy has some spare bananas... 
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Liz
Member of DD Central
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Post by Liz on Jun 2, 2016 16:40:11 GMT
Ladies and gentlemen, headless chickens. Perhaps a look at the loan updates tab as supposed to this protracted, largely painful conjecture would at least settle some of your key squabbles. SS appear to be making it quite clear that they intend on communicating such details directly through the official channel - their website - rather than other methods (ie. this forum). Yes; I noted the update in a post a couple of pages ago (I'm not getting involved to much in this thread, as everybody is going around in circles). I'm happy to see the updates page used more, and hope it continues. I would still like them to engage with the community (via the is forum) but can understand after all the muck that has been slung their way over the last week (legal action... really guys.... ) if we never see them again... > Come back savingstream ... most of us still love you ... can we tempt you back... I have a nice bottle of VOSP brandy; oldgrumpy has bananas... Enjoy your strychnine!
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Post by brianac on Jun 2, 2016 19:51:50 GMT
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Post by harvey on Jun 2, 2016 22:12:08 GMT
Talk about going around in circles as many others have said.
Many have raised the point about the conflict between the old and new terms and I probably raised that point myself but you have to accept that SS are now dealing with this and obviously very keen to get the best outcome for the investors and themselves. Anything else would be professional suicide.
If anybody is unhappy about things they are free to sell their loan parts on the secondary market. Otherwise you stick with it and support the platform.
Negative posts on a forum like this can damage the reputation of a platform and achieve nothing and we are all investors here and the longevity and success of the platform is important to all of us so nobody should go overboard in slagging off the people who are managing our money and have been paying us an excellent rate of return.
Time to sit back and move on I think.
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oldgrumpy
Member of DD Central
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Post by oldgrumpy on Jun 2, 2016 22:42:56 GMT
.... Time to sit back and move on I think. Love to sit back with Doctor brianac's tonic.
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Liz
Member of DD Central
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Post by Liz on Jun 3, 2016 8:58:59 GMT
The new update is up in loan tab, everyone invested should read it. The update still leaves me with questions, but l won't send us around in circles again  |
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Post by retired2005 on Jun 3, 2016 9:11:55 GMT
I notice that people are still buying bits of this defaulted loan on the SM...... WHY?
There must be at least SOME doubt that all money wont be recovered, so why would any normal investor take the risk?
I did see a comment that maybe it was SS buying up bits of it so not so much interest to be paid would be accruing....
Any ideas??
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locutus
Member of DD Central
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Post by locutus on Jun 3, 2016 9:16:09 GMT
<snip> I did see a comment that maybe it was SS buying up bits of it so not so much interest to be paid would be accruing.... Any ideas?? This is not SS buying to prevent interest accruing. When the loan is for sale on the SM, I believe any accrued interest goes in the Provision Fund.
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awk
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Post by awk on Jun 3, 2016 9:19:11 GMT
Apologies if this has already been covered (I scanned the thread and couldn't see anything), but if I go to sell my £1 holding, then the queue is currently about £43k, however there is about £60k for sale.
Does that mean that SS have the other £17k - and if so, when/where did they get it?
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SteveT
Member of DD Central
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Post by SteveT on Jun 3, 2016 9:34:17 GMT
Apologies if this has already been covered (I scanned the thread and couldn't see anything), but if I go to sell my £1 holding, then the queue is currently about £43k, however there is about £60k for sale. Does that mean that SS have the other £17k - and if so, when/where did they get it? Must be underwriter parts, I assume.
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awk
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Post by awk on Jun 3, 2016 9:37:19 GMT
Apologies if this has already been covered (I scanned the thread and couldn't see anything), but if I go to sell my £1 holding, then the queue is currently about £43k, however there is about £60k for sale. Does that mean that SS have the other £17k - and if so, when/where did they get it? Must be underwriter parts, I assume. I wonder if people bought chunks but didn't pay up? SS would then relist behind others
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) if we never see them again... 
... can we tempt you back... I have a nice bottle of VSOP brandy; 
