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Post by mrclondon on Aug 9, 2016 19:47:09 GMT
An educated guess - the difference is c. 2 years of default interest & SS legal fees .... i.e. it is a finger in the air estimate of the potential debt at some random date in the future to allow lenders to continue accruing interest whilst the loan is in default. Or perhaps SS lenders would have prefered Lendy to have declared the debt value at the date of administration to make the figures look nice, and to forgo any prospect of receiving interest since the loan was defaulted, returning any funds received from the sale above the £1.7m loan value to the borrower.
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cooling_dude
Bye Bye's for the PPI
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Post by cooling_dude on Aug 10, 2016 2:33:02 GMT
An educated guess - the difference is c. 2 years of default interest & SS legal fees .... i.e. it is a finger in the air estimate of the potential debt at some random date in the future to allow lenders to continue accruing interest whilst the loan is in default. Or perhaps SS lenders would have prefered Lendy to have declared the debt value at the date of administration to make the figures look nice, and to forgo any prospect of receiving interest since the loan was defaulted, returning any funds received from the sale above the £1.7m loan value to the borrower. That doesn't sound like an unreasonable explanation, but it would still be nice for SS to confirm. I don't think that any of us investors would prefer your later situation mrclondon . Your observation may be obvious to somebody such as yourself who is more experienced in this sector than others, but your response seems a tad harsh on those who are still learning about these subjects.
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Post by dualinvestor on Aug 10, 2016 8:05:07 GMT
An educated guess - the difference is c. 2 years of default interest & SS legal fees .... i.e. it is a finger in the air estimate of the potential debt at some random date in the future to allow lenders to continue accruing interest whilst the loan is in default. Or perhaps SS lenders would have prefered Lendy to have declared the debt value at the date of administration to make the figures look nice, and to forgo any prospect of receiving interest since the loan was defaulted, returning any funds received from the sale above the £1.7m loan value to the borrower. The document referred to is the Administrators Statement of Affaris at 26 May 2016 the date of their appointment. It is contained within the Administrators proposal. It is the amount claimed by Lendy Ltd or calculated by the Administrator due at 26 May 2016For the avoidance of doubt it should not include:- Administrators fees incurred since that date Administartors fees incurred before that unless paid or accrued by Lendy Administrators and other expenses (valuers, lawyers, selling agents, trading agents etc). Interest accrued since that date. Any costs of realisation So it is the amount "Lendy to have declared the debt value at the date of administration"
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fp
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Post by fp on Aug 10, 2016 8:59:34 GMT
An educated guess - the difference is c. 2 years of default interest & SS legal fees .... i.e. it is a finger in the air estimate of the potential debt at some random date in the future to allow lenders to continue accruing interest whilst the loan is in default. Or perhaps SS lenders would have prefered Lendy to have declared the debt value at the date of administration to make the figures look nice, and to forgo any prospect of receiving interest since the loan was defaulted, returning any funds received from the sale above the £1.7m loan value to the borrower. The document referred to is the Administrators Statement of Affaris at 26 May 2016 the date of their appointment. It is contained within the Administrators proposal. It is the amount claimed by Lendy Ltd or calculated by the Administrator due at 26 May 2016For the avoidance of doubt it should not include:- Administrators fees incurred since that date Administartors fees incurred before that unless paid or accrued by Lendy Administrators and other expenses (valuers, lawyers, selling agents, trading agents etc). Interest accrued since that date. Any costs of realisation So it is the amount "Lendy to have declared the debt value at the date of administration" You seem to know your stuff dualinvestor, are you a lawyer, and if so why aren't you on a 4 month holiday like the ones SS deal with? *joke*
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sl75
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Post by sl75 on Aug 11, 2016 9:33:19 GMT
... especially if (as I suspect) the PF isn't going to cover the interest. I can't see how the provision fund can ever be expected to cover the interest. As it is entirely discretionary, it can't be EXPECTED to pay back anything. However, as the goal is to maintain goodwill with investors, I see no reason for them NOT to cover the missing interest, provided that: - it doesn't drain an excessive amount from the fund that would reasonably be expected as cover for future claims - they don't create a precedent (terms like "in this instance", or "as a gesture of goodwill" appearing in any email on the subject. Since the loan became effectively untradeable, the value of the GBP has been falling faster than interest has been accruing, so anyone who will ultimately be transferring the balance to a currency that has been more stable would get less now even if all capital and interest were covered, than if they'd received a full payout of capital at the moment of default. Perhaps it might be more appropriate, to cover only a portion of the accrued interest - e.g. at the statutory 8% rate rather than the contract 12% rate.
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littleoldlady
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Post by littleoldlady on Aug 11, 2016 11:13:46 GMT
I can't see how the provision fund can ever be expected to cover the interest. As it is entirely discretionary, it can't be EXPECTED to pay back anything. However, as the goal is to maintain goodwill with investors, I see no reason for them NOT to cover the missing interest, provided that: - it doesn't drain an excessive amount from the fund that would reasonably be expected as cover for future claims - they don't create a precedent (terms like "in this instance", or "as a gesture of goodwill" appearing in any email on the subject. Since the loan became effectively untradeable, the value of the GBP has been falling faster than interest has been accruing, so anyone who will ultimately be transferring the balance to a currency that has been more stable would get less now even if all capital and interest were covered, than if they'd received a full payout of capital at the moment of default. Perhaps it might be more appropriate, to cover only a portion of the accrued interest - e.g. at the statutory 8% rate rather than the contract 12% rate. Dream on.
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Post by chrisj on Aug 11, 2016 12:12:44 GMT
As it is entirely discretionary, it can't be EXPECTED to pay back anything. However, as the goal is to maintain goodwill with investors, I see no reason for them NOT to cover the missing interest, provided that: - it doesn't drain an excessive amount from the fund that would reasonably be expected as cover for future claims - they don't create a precedent (terms like "in this instance", or "as a gesture of goodwill" appearing in any email on the subject. Since the loan became effectively untradeable, the value of the GBP has been falling faster than interest has been accruing, so anyone who will ultimately be transferring the balance to a currency that has been more stable would get less now even if all capital and interest were covered, than if they'd received a full payout of capital at the moment of default. Perhaps it might be more appropriate, to cover only a portion of the accrued interest - e.g. at the statutory 8% rate rather than the contract 12% rate. Dream on. A lot of jokes being told today. SS shouldn't jeopardize the whole business to pay lost interest. This is the nature of this business and if you don't like the risks put your money in savings account.
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Post by dualinvestor on Aug 16, 2016 9:18:41 GMT
The Garden Centre is shown as "under offer" on the Agent's (AMA) web site.
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ped
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Post by ped on Aug 18, 2016 15:04:29 GMT
SS update - Offer received for nearly full amount of outstanding SS loan. We have accepted this today. Purchaser is reliant on a bank mortgage so we cannot comment on the time it will take to repay.
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ablender
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Post by ablender on Aug 18, 2016 16:07:16 GMT
We will probably get to see how the PF works (if someone who is invested in this loan cares to share).
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Post by dualinvestor on Aug 18, 2016 16:34:04 GMT
SS update - Offer received for nearly full amount of outstanding SS loan. We have accepted this today. Purchaser is reliant on a bank mortgage so we cannot comment on the time it will take to repay. Interesting, I wonder what they mean by the "SS loan," Lendy Ltd is owed £2.841million. This potential purchaser is dependent upon a bank mortgage. Given the sale last year of £1.475 million and the subsequent failure of the business and planning permission, it is unlikely that the bank will put a very high value on the site, so even to get close to the amount SS members advanced (£1.7million) and a say 80% mortgage the buyer will have to have a lot of cash of his own.
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cooling_dude
Bye Bye's for the PPI
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Post by cooling_dude on Aug 18, 2016 16:36:15 GMT
SS update - Offer received for nearly full amount of outstanding SS loan. We have accepted this today. Purchaser is reliant on a bank mortgage so we cannot comment on the time it will take to repay. Interesting, I wonder what they mean by the "SS loan," Lendy Ltd is owed £2.841million. This potential purchaser is dependent upon a bank mortgage. Given the sale last year of £1.475 million and the subsequent failure of the business and planning permission, it is unlikely that the bank will put a very high value on the site, so even to get close to the amount SS members advanced (£1.7million) and a say 80% mortgage the buyer will have to have a lot of cash of his own. Well... Maybe SS can provide the proposed buyer a bridging loan... 
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littleoldlady
Member of DD Central
Running down all platforms due to age
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Post by littleoldlady on Aug 22, 2016 11:59:45 GMT
Interesting, I wonder what they mean by the "SS loan," Lendy Ltd is owed £2.841million. This potential purchaser is dependent upon a bank mortgage. Given the sale last year of £1.475 million and the subsequent failure of the business and planning permission, it is unlikely that the bank will put a very high value on the site, so even to get close to the amount SS members advanced (£1.7million) and a say 80% mortgage the buyer will have to have a lot of cash of his own. Well... Maybe SS can provide the proposed buyer a bridging loan... I just can't wait to put money into that!
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Post by 2wolfbag2 on Aug 22, 2016 14:11:03 GMT
From the sale site as advertised
Description
Freehold circa 4.1 acres (1.66 hectares) Garden Centre with Farm Shop and fully licenced Café/Restaurant plus an additional 7.1 acres (2.87 hectares) of adjacent land, if required, at an additional cost.
I note that the bridging loan particulars state
5.5 acres of land with full planning permission for extensive redevelopment and
increase of the garden center (£200k per acre / £1.1m)
• Residential Property (£650k)
• 17.5 of agricultural land with potential for 4 x timber chalet planning permission
(£12k per acre / £210k)
So there appears to be the residential property and 17.5(acres?) of agricultural land to spare ?
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Post by dualinvestor on Aug 22, 2016 14:22:33 GMT
From the sale site as advertised Description Freehold circa 4.1 acres (1.66 hectares) Garden Centre with Farm Shop and fully licenced Café/Restaurant plus an additional 7.1 acres (2.87 hectares) of adjacent land, if required, at an additional cost. I note that the bridging loan particulars state 5.5 acres of land with full planning permission for extensive redevelopment and increase of the garden center (£200k per acre / £1.1m) • Residential Property (£650k) • 17.5 of agricultural land with potential for 4 x timber chalet planning permission (£12k per acre / £210k) So there appears to be the residential property and 17.5(acres?) of agricultural land to spare ? That was more or less what was in the original loan valuation document. One major omission is the refusal of planning permission earlier this year and I wouldn't put too much credence on the attached prices. 
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