kermie
Member of DD Central
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Post by kermie on Jan 4, 2015 22:49:12 GMT
batchoy - you are not alone - most of my loans (many of which were A1000) have been categorized as HR. grmph. Post-factum relabelling of these originally 'less-risky' loans will make the loan inherently less valuable on the secondary market. Ever get the feeling that Bondora is funding their market analysis with lenders cash? I do feel slightly abused by the way Bondora constantly changes the rules of the game without lender buy-in. Anyway, I promised earlier not to rant too much. Fail. coolrunning - thanks for the tip - I've played around some more, and this time Bondora has accepted my noddy Portfolio Manager and prompted me to 'sign' it. Bit of a UX fail in this case - the site really should have told me that my earlier settings were not accepted.
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Post by batchoy on Jan 4, 2015 23:54:16 GMT
batchoy - you are not alone - most of my loans (many of which were A1000) have been categorized as HR. grmph. Post-factum relabelling of these originally 'less-risky' loans will make the loan inherently less valuable on the secondary market. Ever get the feeling that Bondora is funding their market analysis with lenders cash? I do feel slightly abused by the way Bondora constantly changes the rules of the game without lender buy-in. Anyway, I promised earlier not to rant too much. Fail. I should also have pointed out that many of these now junk rated loans were also fully verified and not from the B+ market place. Working through so far I have found about a 100 premium loans (Fully verified, Estonian A1000) which have faultless payment histories but which have been given a HR rating. Which leads me to conclude that one of three things is going on either Bondora knew something that they didn't divulge when the loan was originally listed and thus it was miss-sold, Bondora have learnt something subsequent to the loan being lent but aren't letting on as to what it is, or the new rating system is not all it is cracked up to be.
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starfished
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Post by starfished on Jan 5, 2015 1:00:51 GMT
I thought I had read somewhere that Bondora only used information available at the time of the application to set the now rating (so good behaviour since application doesn't affecting the rating given)?
As someone who targeted A 1000 loans (even accepting that this was no information about past credit problems rather than an indication of a good prospect), like others I am surprised at the proportion of my loans now marked as HR.
Having said that, looking at my own lates/defaults there does seem to be something to their new categorisation even with a relatively small sample size (c. 400 loans, excluding sold loans).
AA 0%
A 0%
B 0%
C 3%
D 6%
E 23%
F 22%
HR 36%
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duck
Member of DD Central
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Post by duck on Jan 5, 2015 6:19:51 GMT
It appears that my HR % is not as high as others... and I have been rather active in the 'B+' market (nearly all income verified) On a 2000+ loan book my figures came out at AA 0.85 A 5.51 B 13.51 C 16.91 D 19.93 E 6.36 HR 28.78
If I plug these percentages into the new Portfolio Manager my projected return doesn't approach what I have so far achieved in spite of a couple of months of record + 60 day loans.
that was my understanding. That would account for the borrowers that I have with two loans running having different ratings for the two loans (later loan is say 'C' with earlier loan on 'D').
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Post by batchoy on Jan 5, 2015 7:57:11 GMT
Looking at my Premium (Fully Verified, Estonian, A1000) loans that have gone to HR despite having good payment records there seems to be a common factor; a number of the borrowers appear to have taken advantage of the change to fixed rates back in May last year to refinance one or more existing Bondora loans into a single lower rate loan thus paying off their existing loans early.
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JamesFrance
Member of DD Central
Port Grimaud 1974
Posts: 1,323
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Post by JamesFrance on Jan 5, 2015 8:30:30 GMT
I have not changed to the new profile manager, but this morning I picked up a B800 loan which I did not have a profile for. I have now deleted all my old profiles and will watch what happens .
I would not trust the new rating system without evidence of success, which will take at least 6 months.
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kermie
Member of DD Central
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Post by kermie on Jan 5, 2015 19:05:14 GMT
I have not changed to the new profile manager, but this morning I picked up a B800 loan which I did not have a profile for. I have now deleted all my old profiles and will watch what happens . I would not trust the new rating system without evidence of success, which will take at least 6 months. Yeah - I picked up two loans today, B1000 and A1000 - both AA, at a smidgen under 15%. Seems like AAs are not quite as rare as I'd imagined? Now I'm wondering how I really turn my profiles off. One other annoying thing - I cannot restrict the loans via the new Portfolio Managers by duration to 3 years, 5 years etc. This makes a controlled wind-down over several years somewhat harder. Gees!...this has not been thought through!
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JamesFrance
Member of DD Central
Port Grimaud 1974
Posts: 1,323
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Post by JamesFrance on Jan 5, 2015 20:04:27 GMT
Bondora's Taavi made this post on the Bondora forum, they rarely post there or here now which is a pity, but I am afraid it is a take it or leave it situation for investors now.
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spyrogyra
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Post by spyrogyra on Jan 6, 2015 19:27:50 GMT
Told you a while ago they are up to no good. Implementing too many changes in very short time is not a good practice. Did you notice they made it hard to track the borrowers' ids, the one starting with BO. Now where this borrower id was, is the application id (something worthless), and to find how this borrower fares on the SM you have to make a few clicks. Do you think this is done without reason? Imo allowing a huge mark up was a mistake too. And because the default rate in any other country apart from Estonia turned out to be quite high (actually putting off), now they have removed this indication as well. How about just to say - give the money to us, the system will lend to whomever comes up,we promise you such and such interest but beware there's always a risk and you may just turn to be extremely unlucky. I've asked to withdraw my available cash earlier today. Goodbye Bondora, Isohunt or whatever you think you are.
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taca
Posts: 29
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Post by taca on Jan 7, 2015 11:47:56 GMT
I'm very unhappy about being unable to turn-off the auto-invest feature (can any legally-minded people comment on this?). I've tried setting the amounts and percentages to zero bit the system disallows this. And several substantial offers have been made on my behalf on loan parts I never wanted. In fact I now just want to sell my investments and escape. What else are they going to?
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Post by reeknralf on Jan 7, 2015 14:09:31 GMT
Setting everything to zero should stop investment, it's just that since the relaunch, the web-site is generally not working correctly. So you try to modify the portfolio manager, but nothing actually changes. It was like this from friday afternoon until monday morning, and is again bust today.
I got lumbered with ~€1000 of loans on friday evening, which I didn't want. I have started one of those interminable kafkaesque e-mail exchanges where I say I couldn't stop the manager (because the site was broke), and they reply telling me how to modify a portfolio manager. I even got some E and F grade loans paying under 20%, because they were priced under the old model, offering predicted yields of 3-5% after defaults. Lucky me.
If they refuse to refund the bids, as they have so far, it'd presumably be possible to lodge a complaint with the FCA. At least that's what I shall threaten if they continue to pretend there's no problem.
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JamesFrance
Member of DD Central
Port Grimaud 1974
Posts: 1,323
Likes: 897
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Post by JamesFrance on Jan 9, 2015 8:46:50 GMT
I have just added a poll to this topic. If you vote other please post the reason.
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Post by batchoy on Jan 9, 2015 9:05:00 GMT
I have just added a poll to this topic. If you vote other please post the reason. I voted other as I had all my original Profiles disabled, but when the new Portfolio Manager(s) were activated Bondora did an AC and disregard my instructions and activated the 'Market Mix' manager. As far as I can see there is no way of turning the new Portfolio Managers completely off, as the UI won't accept 0 in all the fields.
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JamesFrance
Member of DD Central
Port Grimaud 1974
Posts: 1,323
Likes: 897
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Post by JamesFrance on Jan 9, 2015 9:16:28 GMT
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ianj
Member of DD Central
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Post by ianj on Jan 9, 2015 9:47:22 GMT
I have just added a poll to this topic. If you vote other please post the reason. I voted other as I am in the process of selling-up my investment, a decision made immediately on hearing that Portfolio Manager Investment could not be made country specific. Fortunately I was able to liquidate 50% before before all loans had the new rating applied. The new Bondora Rating appears makes little sense when loans with perfect repayment records are classed HR and some in default are not. It will probably require some serious discounting to shift my remaining non-defaulted loans. And just to rub salt in the wound, the Euro takes a nose dive!
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