j
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Post by j on Dec 17, 2014 11:19:41 GMT
A prominent lack of loans coming onto the market makes me wonder if it is better to still have the old system of bidding still in place instead of relying on underwriters to finance loans initially. At least there was some activity (and please no one quote the AM activity as I'm specifically referencing lack of new loans, not recycling of old ones). Of course, it could be totally unrelated reasons to my ramblings.
What is it then?
-Genuine lack of decent loans? -Too much proper DD on AC's part? -Lack of funds to finance new loans? -General inertia & malaise in the market? -Too busy sorting out non-paying/defaulted loans?
etc, etc
The list can go on for much more I'm sure
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bugs4me
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Post by bugs4me on Dec 17, 2014 11:57:48 GMT
A prominent lack of loans coming onto the market makes me wonder if it is better to still have the old system of bidding still in place instead of relying on underwriters to finance loans initially. At least there was some activity (and please no one quote the AM activity as I'm specifically referencing lack of new loans, not recycling of old ones). Of course, it could be totally unrelated reasons to my ramblings. What is it then? -Genuine lack of decent loans? -Too much proper DD on AC's part? -Lack of funds to finance new loans? -General inertia & malaise in the market? -Too busy sorting out non-paying/defaulted loans? etc, etc The list can go on for much more I'm sure There does appear to be a bit of a famine ATM but maybe that's just how it goes. There are currently 7 upcoming loans listed but unlike the old system there is little indication as to when they are expected to go live. Now AFAIK, all loans are underwritten prior to drawdown and then they are possibly released onto the AM. Personally, I preferred the old system but I can understand the headaches it gave AC especially regarding any drawdown delays. So things are a little more comfortable in this area. No doubt AC are busy sorting out those defaulted loans but they tended to apply to the (infamous) BL's. Think though that everyone has had a wake up call regarding the optimistic time scales on those - the 6 months. If I had a vote on the new or old system I would personally vote for the old but of course things move on and now everything is more automated so it's a more 'hands off' approach IMO.
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pikestaff
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Post by pikestaff on Dec 17, 2014 12:20:30 GMT
Now that I've got used to it I think I prefer the new system but I won't be sure until I find out how easy it is to buy pieces of new loans, as and when they come available. There are 7 loans in the "upcoming" list. I have targets for all of them but currently have no free cash on the platform because I have no idea when they will draw down.
There should be more, and some of them have been there a very long time. I suspect a shortage of underwriting capacity until some of the duff bridges have been sorted out. Also the recent problems with a few loans may have caused AC to further tighten up its underwriting and drawdown criteria.
There is a difficult balance to be struck here. There are currently plenty of loans on offer on TC and not enough funds from borrowers, but the quality of security is rather more mixed than on AC. I'm happy with that (there are still enough that I like) but it may not suit everybody.
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Post by pepperpot on Dec 17, 2014 12:30:35 GMT
With the change over from listings to u/w-ing there was always going to be a gap to the extent of the average drawdown delay. But were now nearly 2 months past the new site launch date, so I'd expect things to start picking up. Maybe we'll have a busy Jan which might be a welcome contrast to everywhere else going quiet.
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j
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Penguins are very misunderstood!
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Post by j on Dec 17, 2014 12:35:39 GMT
............everything is more automated so it's a more 'hands off' approach IMO. I just hope & pray we do not have an Amazo-esque crash sale of held units @ 1p a pop! Would AC's insurance cover such a mishap (not that I'm implying it would happen)
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agent69
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Post by agent69 on Dec 17, 2014 12:57:34 GMT
A prominent lack of loans coming onto the market No sooner had you pressed the create post button than loan 144 appears for re-sale. I got a bit a 11:18am and the balance of what I was asking for at 12:18. How long to wait for the next one?
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mikes1531
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Post by mikes1531 on Dec 17, 2014 14:47:47 GMT
Now that I've got used to it I think I prefer the new system but I won't be sure until I find out how easy it is to buy pieces of new loans, as and when they come available. There are 7 loans in the "upcoming" list. I have targets for all of them but currently have no free cash on the platform because I have no idea when they will draw down. I don't see any difference in the info flow between the old system and the new one. There's a 'Drawdown' tab on all the website pages for all Upcoming Loans where we can read about the progress -- or lack thereof -- towards drawdown. I would have expected that when drawdown is imminent this would be noted on that tab, and interested lenders would therefore would have the advance warning they need to make funds available in their accounts for their hoped-for Aftermarket purchases when the loan becomes available after drawdown. Are AC not being as diligent about posting updates to the Drawdown as they used to be? I suspect a shortage of underwriting capacity until some of the duff bridges have been sorted out. Is the suggestion that underwriters still have money tied up in those old bridging loans? I would have thought they got out of those long ago.
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sl75
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Post by sl75 on Dec 17, 2014 15:25:42 GMT
No sooner had you pressed the create post button than loan 144 appears for re-sale. I got a bit a 11:18am and the balance of what I was asking for at 12:18. Interesting... I originally had a "real bid" and a "shadow bid" in that loan, and had subsequently zeroed my target due to other short-term demands on funds. One of those sold (split across several buyers - most getting £3.10, and some smaller amounts) at 11:17 and the other at 12:18. It would appear that loan units arising from "real bids" and those arising from "shadow bids" are released to the market at different times. As both were for equal GBP amounts, I cannot tell which was first, but it is interesting that AC favour one group over the other (a moot point in the case of this specific loan, as all loan units sold out). Had that been discussed before?
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pikestaff
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Post by pikestaff on Dec 17, 2014 16:12:03 GMT
Now that I've got used to it I think I prefer the new system but I won't be sure until I find out how easy it is to buy pieces of new loans, as and when they come available. There are 7 loans in the "upcoming" list. I have targets for all of them but currently have no free cash on the platform because I have no idea when they will draw down. I don't see any difference in the info flow between the old system and the new one. There's a 'Drawdown' tab on all the website pages for all Upcoming Loans where we can read about the progress -- or lack thereof -- towards drawdown. I would have expected that when drawdown is imminent this would be noted on that tab, and interested lenders would therefore would have the advance warning they need to make funds available in their accounts for their hoped-for Aftermarket purchases when the loan becomes available after drawdown. Are AC not being as diligent about posting updates to the Drawdown as they used to be? I suspect a shortage of underwriting capacity until some of the duff bridges have been sorted out. Is the suggestion that underwriters still have money tied up in those old bridging loans? I would have thought they got out of those long ago. AFAIK the information is no longer being pushed to us, which it was with the old system (shadow bid settlement requests). Also I don't remember seeing anything about imminent drawdown for loan #144, although I may have missed it because I did not have a target for that one and was not following it closely. I'd like it if the system generated "imminent drawdown" emails for all loans where I have set a target. I do not want to have to check the loan status daily, which gets boring very quickly. As things stand, even if AC do announce imminent drawdown on the website I am worried that by the time I see the notice it may be too late for me to put my funds on the system. And even if I get funds on the system in time I don't know if I will be able to get what I want. Only time will tell. On underwriting, you may be right but some of the bridges are big loans and I think a fair bit could still be with the underwriters.
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oldgrumpy
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Post by oldgrumpy on Dec 17, 2014 16:19:04 GMT
I would like AC to Place on ALL loans an alert (say) three days before they expect the loans to be drawn down, so that we can transfer funds and have them transferred into our cash account in good time to pay for our target units. chris is that likely?
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Post by chris on Dec 17, 2014 16:21:16 GMT
I would like AC to Place on ALL loans an alert (say) three days before they expect the loans to be drawn down, so that we can transfer funds and have them transferred into our cash account in good time to pay for our target units. chris is that likely? I can suggest it again but we often don't know what that level of accuracy to be able to say "it's definitely drawing down in 3 days time". One way to solve that would be to build in a 3 day delay after drawdown before loan units can be sold... Will see what the rest of the team think.
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oldgrumpy
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Post by oldgrumpy on Dec 17, 2014 16:28:21 GMT
Similar criteria to those which (up until now) have triggered shadow bid call-ups. Granted, (three-ish) days can be optimistic sometimes even at the last last last moment - don't we know it?!!
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pikestaff
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Post by pikestaff on Dec 17, 2014 16:40:01 GMT
...some of the bridges are big loans and I think a fair bit could still be with the underwriters. Quoting myself is naughty I know, but I'd like to ask a question. Unlike some of the other platforms, I can't find any statistics on AC's lender base. What size loan do people think the retail lender base can fund without the help of underwriters, assuming that retail lenders do not exceed their personal limits for a loan? My guess is something less than £1m, perhaps significantly less, although they might get up to £1m over time as new lenders join. But I could be wildly wrong...
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pikestaff
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Post by pikestaff on Dec 17, 2014 16:42:44 GMT
Similar criteria to those which (up until now) have triggered shadow bid call-ups. Granted, (three-ish) days can be optimistic sometimes even at the last last last moment - don't we know it?!! I agree with that, and it's not the end of the world if something does happen to delay drawdown. We can always take the money out again or put it to work on another loan, unlike settled shadow bids where we were stuck.
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oldgrumpy
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Post by oldgrumpy on Dec 17, 2014 16:47:51 GMT
.... and it can take a minimum of two to four days (over a weekend) from us instigating a bank transfer, and AC actually putting it into our cash account, so we cannot react quickly either . I have a plan - not very cunning - but a very unreliable (but unrisky) one. Haven't tried it yet.
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