blender
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Post by blender on Dec 18, 2014 18:25:37 GMT
... One last observation: Whatever attractive P2P may appear to be, better not put all eggs in one basket. Within the traditional classification of Cash - Bonds - Equities, P2P does not fit in the Bond category and is definitely not Cash (i.e. Savings accounts, money market). Just a word of caution. And yes, Tito Puente rocks. and even with the bit you put into p2p, don't put it all in one platform. We should refrain from giving advice on this board. But since you have, why exactly? - particularly the multi-platform part. Is not the diversity in the loan portfolio, and is not a well diversified portfolio of loans very much closer to the risk of bonds than in a diversified holding of equities? Is the operator the egg basket - or the borrower? Personally my trust is in the borrowers, or most of them, because our interests are the same - the cash generation from their businesses. By risk I mean downside risk in both returns and liquidity. I remember equity values being reduced by 30% a few years ago by common mode factors that cannot do the same to loans. And those in certain Icelandic banks would have very little is HMG had not refunded them with taxpayers money in spite of the accounts not being in the UK guarantee scheme. And if you sold a house in Cyprus and had your proceeds in a Cyprus bank a year or two ago - I could go on. Agreed that you should know the risks being taken with money and should not risk more than you can afford to lose. But how do you come to such conclusions? (The Autobidders are not listening.) Edit: I had not seen bracknellboy's post. I agree.
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mikeb
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Post by mikeb on Dec 18, 2014 18:39:45 GMT
Is the operator the egg basket - or the borrower? Both. I view it as egg baskets within egg baskets. Within one platform, do your best to spread across many borrowers -- even given RS's provision fund and Zopa's Safeguard. Then spread across multiple platforms too.
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blender
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Post by blender on Dec 18, 2014 19:48:34 GMT
Please don't make me. I'm too old to learn new platforms.
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Post by GSV3MIaC on Dec 18, 2014 21:46:02 GMT
If you only play on one platform then you better have something other than eggs on the go too!
Personally I use a couple of other platforms (neither as much effort, or as amusing, as Fiddly Computing) but still worry that the platform risks outweigh the risks of any one borrower, or set of borrowers, or even the risks of government meddling. You really can't be too old to learn, for instance, RS although you may need an eye operation and Tunnel-Carpal syndrome surgery, to work their new look website.
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TitoPuente
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Post by TitoPuente on Dec 19, 2014 10:16:41 GMT
and even with the bit you put into p2p, don't put it all in one platform. We should refrain from giving advice on this board. But since you have, why exactly? Sorry, no advice intended. Just trying to compare notes with other P2P investors. When I mention baskets and eggs I refer to broader diversification (i.e. equities, bonds, cash, real estate, other alternative asset classes). For P2P I tend to think that platform diversification is fairly irrelevant. If one fails, liquidity will probably dry across the board. Assuming P2P is one [new] asset class, I personally would not allocate more than one fifth of my investable funds into it. I still find myself more comfortable with equities for the medium/long term. But this is just a personal opinion.
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Post by GSV3MIaC on Dec 19, 2014 10:44:45 GMT
You're ignoring the fact than several P2P platforms have =already= failed, with minimal impact on liquidity .. admittedly they were rather small fry compared to FC, but that's no consolation if you had 100% of your P2P investments with one of them.
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blender
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Post by blender on Dec 19, 2014 11:08:51 GMT
So what did happen to lenders when the failed? These are case studies.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2014 12:03:15 GMT
Good insights provided. The consensus seems to be that the website is suboptimal at least but there are many other positives. I would change the title of the thread to Great idea. Poor execution in some aspects, mostly technology and communication. Wordy but more accurate. One last observation: Whatever attractive P2P may appear to be, better not put all eggs in one basket. Within the traditional classification of Cash - Bonds - Equities, P2P does not fit in the Bond category and is definitely not Cash (i.e. Savings accounts, money market). Just a word of caution. And yes, Tito Puente rocks. I'm also relatively new with FC and I have to disagree. I have some insights with at at least two major UK/Spanish banks and I find FC's customer facing software to be more fluid but actually better than both banks. I don't see the 1penny problems that other people do, but I guess I've also stopped picking them up in the street. Given the back office weaknesses of both major banks I know I would not risk much money with them and I actively avoid any Financial service functions with a large history of legacy software. Not that COBOL is not great but that the idiots who have to link it up to the newer stuff are not up to the task (I'm related to at least 2 of them and they admit they are well out of their depth). The last major COBOL successful link-up I worked on actually had the Mr W Gates as a consultant :-) so you can tell how long I go back. What I have seen from FC is an ability to respond to questions so fast that it makes the banks I do use look like old, cold reptiles. But I do agree you need to spread your risk with these portals. I've done so and have money with 1) A low rate P2P 2) A medium rate P2B without identified security 3) A medium rate P2B with identified security Which will fall over first, who knows? Seasons geetings to all
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TitoPuente
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Post by TitoPuente on Nov 11, 2016 21:35:26 GMT
As a sort of goodbye to FC act, I wanted to bring back to life my first post and thread in this forum.
My initial opinion proved to be quite accurate. I stand by it.
For the last 6 months I have been the proud owner of a zombie account. I could not take the rest of my money out because part of the funds were "RBR" and part were just defaulted.
FC has been dismal in defending the rights of lenders.
So called IVAs and CVAs see the companies still trading while lenders recovering pennies on the pound.
Comments stating "we are in the process of contacting borrowers/guarantors" that go for weeks on end. Weeks to make a fricking phone call.
FC has been an absolute disappointment I am happy to be out for good.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2016 10:19:34 GMT
FC has been an absolute disappointment I am happy to be out for good. Is your alternate to leave P2P altogether or on which platforms are you happier with their offering?
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SteveT
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Post by SteveT on Nov 12, 2016 12:34:12 GMT
I too took the heavy-hearted decision 10 days ago finally to call time on any further direct FC lending, retaining only my ISA holding of FCIF investment trust (yielding a tax-free 7%-8% at zero effort).
From a high-water mark well into 6 figures in summer 2015, my FC book was already down circa 90% as I was left chasing Ds and Es to hold short-term. However, with no bot to call upon (and FC lifting not a finger to prevent their PM domination), I can no longer bag enough new loans to replace those I must sell and so cannot maintain adequate diversification. I'm currently selling all remaining live loans before their next payment (at par where necessary) to avoid the potential annoyance of any further defaults.
Final scores on the doors (before any future recoveries) will be approx £16k net profit over 2 years at an IRR of around 14% (Oh, for the old days of early-closers and property cashbacks!). Not bad, but it could have been so much better had FC retained variable rate auctions and/or restricted the bot abuse.
The beneficiaries of FC's decline have been MoneyThing, Ablrate, Funding Secure and BridgeCrowd in that order (my Saving Stream book remains broadly static, whilst my Assetz Capital book is circa 50% down, again for the lack of new loans worth buying). Once my last FC loan is gone, my only remaining unsecured lending (FCIF excepted) will be the handful of Lending Crowd loans I'm still stuck with...
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TitoPuente
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Post by TitoPuente on Nov 12, 2016 13:49:34 GMT
FC has been an absolute disappointment I am happy to be out for good. Is your alternate to leave P2P altogether or on which platforms are you happier with their offering? Not leaving P2P. Current portfolio with SS, MT, ABL, and COL (and a leftover for sale at LC).
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Post by GSV3MIaC on Nov 12, 2016 16:39:48 GMT
I'm finally off too, despite having a bot. I had it because the promised API never appeared (after I had geared up for it), and I've spent the last 3 years or so hoping FC would finally fix the issues (or at least limit buying enough so that an autobid on Es would garner a few parts each week).
The recent SM changes seem to have stopped some of the bot activity there (I think FC have introduced some "HTTP only" validation cookies, which means if you want to hack/automate selling and buying you need to intercept & go play with their own javascript code - you can't interact directly with their Ajax servers any more) .. but it has not been applied to PM bidding (maybe arriving later?). I too was up at 5 figures (6 if you roll in my partner's account), and am shrinking it fast, and I'm off to all the same places as everyone else.
I'll probably keep the bot rolling for a bit, just to keep the stats going, but it'll only buy Es at 25%+ (and sell them for +0.3% ASAP).
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trevor
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Post by trevor on Nov 12, 2016 18:09:14 GMT
I'm also winding down but I also see all the loans filling v quick so it's fairly obvious they have plenty to replace us. The question is, how long will it last?
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arbster
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Post by arbster on Nov 12, 2016 20:15:15 GMT
I've been selling down for months, although relatively slowly according to some statistical profiling of risk based on ratings and terms, and my holding is now down into 4 figures. One way traffic now, and from being a big fan of FC this time last year, I'd find it impossible to recommend them to anyone any more.
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