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Post by moonraker on Feb 23, 2021 19:12:05 GMT
Twenty years ago a solicitor drew up a will for me that ran to 27 pages (albeit double-spaced). At that time I had perhaps ten or twelve routine investments (building society accounts, unit trusts) and ten or twelve beneficiaries.
Five years later, my father died. His will ran to just 1 1/4 pages (also double-spaced). He had eight or ten routine investments and my mother was his major beneficiary, with my receiving a bequest. He also had substantial income from a family trust (which I did not inherit), which made settling his estate an extended affair.
Looking at my will, my solicitor seems to have dotted every "i" and crossed every "t", mostly relating to a Trust Fund to be set up by my Executors.
Fear not, I do not seek advice on my particular situation. But I would be interested in very general comments about the lengths of the respective wills. How long is your will?
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iRobot
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Post by iRobot on Feb 23, 2021 20:21:57 GMT
Four pages - not exactly double spaced but could probably be comfortably re-formatted onto three.
Involves some 'pecuniary legacies' - a little 'complication' here as some property held just in my name and some held jointly with my (non-spousal) partner - and variation on beneficiaries depending on who's alive at the time but that's fairly typical, I should have thought.
It also outlines my desire to be buried at sea, but other than that it's fairly vanilla.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2021 22:59:28 GMT
I had to reread that. In my stupidity I thought you were going to be buried in vanilla ice cream.
Puts bottle down and heads for bed.
Good night all.
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iRobot
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Post by iRobot on Feb 24, 2021 1:35:59 GMT
I thought you were going to be buried in vanilla ice cream. Cryogenics for the sweet-toothed?  Wouldn’t be vanilla for me though. Rum'n'raisin all the way and heavy on the rum, please 
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Feb 24, 2021 7:30:29 GMT
I don't think ours even get onto a second page. They were drawn up by a solicitor, quite a few years ago now, when our situation was very different, but...
Everything to other half.
If they've also kicked the bucket, everything to... <somebody else>
That's about it. They certainly don't enumerate every single investment - they don't need to, only where it's going. Or am I missing something?
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Post by moonraker on Feb 24, 2021 7:53:22 GMT
My 27-page epic includes barely two pages personal to me, the rest is standard guff. The two-page Table of Contents (honest!) lists sections such as "Power to Lend", "Power to Borrow", "Power to Appoint Agents", "Power to Give Indemnities and Other Commitments", "Exclusion of Apportionment", "Power to Vote by Majority" and so on.
Back in 2000 even I was able to provide the firm with a floppy disk listing beneficiaries and their addresses. The senior partner confessed to not "understanding these things" and passed the disk to his secretary, who apparently retyped its contents. (She made one spelling mistake in a beneficiary's name.) Surely copy & paste was possible then?
EDIT: originally I put "2020" - it should have been 2000. Apologies.
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dave4
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Cynical is a hobby not a lifestyle
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Post by dave4 on Feb 24, 2021 8:10:28 GMT
moonraker i am impressed / amazed you found a floppy disk in 2020. And yes copy past was available last year. Also quite impressed 27 pages actually fitted on a disk. Mine is 2 page basic announcement will. Depose of body tat and worth to someone.
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Post by dan1 on Feb 24, 2021 8:41:06 GMT
I know little of wills or probate but isn't one of the risks that it could be contested and locked in legal wranglings for months if not years? I'd of thought the more clauses the greater the risk?
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Post by moonraker on Feb 24, 2021 9:33:21 GMT
When the solicitor drew up the will in 2000 I included him as an executor because the only relative with sufficient nous to be one was in a very high-pressure job and unlikely to find the time; he's now retired, though my estate has become more complex.
Recently I ran a thread about the wisdom of doing this, and Dan1's comment now prompts the no-doubt unworthy thought that the solicitor might have had an eye to the possibility of generating work for his firm.
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Post by dan1 on Feb 24, 2021 9:45:13 GMT
When the solicitor drew up the will in 2000 I included him as an executor because the only relative with sufficient nous to be one was in a very high-pressure job and unlikely to find the time; he's now retired, though my estate has become more complex.
Recently I ran a thread about the wisdom of doing this, and Dan1's comment now prompts the no-doubt unworthy thought that the solicitor might have had an eye to the possibility of generating work for his firm.
I think part of the problem asking on this forum is that many of the old timers remember pretty disastrous loans to some of those in the legal profession. I'm sure it's not reflective but you never know!
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Post by investor1925 on Feb 24, 2021 9:54:16 GMT
Having just gone through the process last year of being executor for a parent (the other one having died previously) we are glad we have left 100% of our estate to each other.
If the first one passing away doesn't leave everything to their spouse, the forms you have to fill in for the second one (IHT400 + + + + +) are horrendous.
If the first one going leaves it all to their spouse, on the death of the second one, you only need to fill in IHT205 only & it can be done on-line.
For this reason, our wills are only 2 pages long ie everything to spouse first, then everything equally split between surviving children or grandchildren (if applicable)
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Post by moonraker on Feb 24, 2021 10:19:13 GMT
I have no immediate family so am having to spread my largesse around a number of relatives and friends, with money going to the children of the former if their parent dies.
"Definitions and Constructions" in my will say that the children can be "legitimate, legitimated, illegitimate or adopted". The next paragraph but one notes that "Words denoting any gender shall include both the other genders". Err? Doesn't this suggest that back in 2020 three genders were recognised; nowadays there are probably more.
One of the children who could possibly benefit I've never met and is estranged from his family, so he needs to be excluded.
(As you may have gathered, I need to revise the will.)
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pikestaff
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Post by pikestaff on Feb 24, 2021 12:30:17 GMT
You don't need a trust if all the executor is going to do is wind up the estate and distribute it to the beneficiaries.
If you have (or had back then) minor children, or other beneficiaries who lack capacity, you'd might well want/need to set up a trust for their benefit. In that case the will would set up the terms of the trust, which would run to many pages of boilerplate such as you mention.
Sometimes people have other reasons to set up trusts, eg to "keep it in the family" for longer, or perhaps to try to save tax (though my impression is they are largely ineffective for that these days). But I infer from your question that you had no such reason!
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Post by paul123 on Feb 24, 2021 12:33:01 GMT
My tips.
list all your investments, etc on a separate piece of paper. Not the amounts or account numbers - just account names and providers. Then verbally tell the executor where it is.
If you intend the omit someone from an inheritance, don’t just not name them - specify that they are excluded and maybe say why.
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travolta
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Post by travolta on Feb 24, 2021 12:43:16 GMT
There's people in Birmingham who bury you @sea....out by The Needles . It used to cost about £7,000 pounds ,but you must be careful not to be embalmed first...so its good to let people know in advance.. My family is buried in the back field behind our house.
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