toffeeboy
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Post by toffeeboy on Feb 25, 2021 14:45:31 GMT
.... The European Union doesn't have citizenships, countries have citizens not unions. I know the EU call people EU Citizens but there is no such thing and trying to pass itself off as a country is exactly what the EU wants. Not commenting on anything else, but this is factually incorrect. You are choosing to say that only countries have citizens. That is your choice, but is not something you can state as a universal truism. What does citizenship actually mean that contradicts this usage ? EU citizenship is a formal thing, created by the Maastricht treaty. As such it grants specific rights and protections to citizens of EU countries. For example, rights to free movement, settlement and employment. The right to vote in European electionsetc. It also confers the right to consular protection in countries where their home country (that or those which they carry a passport issued by) don't have representation. EU citizenship is not just some false label, it has legal meaning with real practical meaning. Sorry but the very definition of citizenship is "the legal right right to belong to a country". Just because the EU says something does not make it right, as I have said before, this is the way the EU want people to think. Start thinking of the EU as a country in it's own right, what would citizens of the EU be called because European is already taken to mean something else although as already stated that doesn't really matter to the EU.
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Feb 25, 2021 16:08:56 GMT
are you trying to say because these countries fit into certain groups they are more European that Britain? I wasn't. Because the census question is about MY personal identity. But, yes, I certainly will. Because they undoubtedly are.
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IFISAcava
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Post by IFISAcava on Feb 26, 2021 0:02:12 GMT
People have forcibly taken away my EU citizenship, and I am extremely unhappy about that. I always identified as a Londoner, a European, and British. Having had the European bit taken away, and no longer identifying with what Britain has become (assuming that Britain even continues to be a national entity, which I would currently rate as less than 50/50), that leaves me as a (proud) Londoner. Britain hasn't been dragged to a different continent, it is still part of Europe. How hard is that for people to understand? Are the inhabitants of Iceland not European either? Norway, Switzerland etc... The European Union isn't a country, nation or continent. It is a union and nothing more, it isn't even a union of like minded countries anymore which is why myself and several others voted to leave it. The European Union doesn't have citizenships, countries have citizens not unions. I know the EU call people EU Citizens but there is no such thing and trying to pass itself off as a country is exactly what the EU wants. 1. You are wrong. see: Maastricht treaty. 2. Thanks for the attitude - it gives me renewed energy to fight to regain it.
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IFISAcava
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Post by IFISAcava on Feb 26, 2021 0:03:23 GMT
.... The European Union doesn't have citizenships, countries have citizens not unions. I know the EU call people EU Citizens but there is no such thing and trying to pass itself off as a country is exactly what the EU wants. Not commenting on anything else, but this is factually incorrect. You are choosing to say that only countries have citizens. That is your choice, but is not something you can state as a universal truism. What does citizenship actually mean that contradicts this usage ? EU citizenship is a formal thing, created by the Maastricht treaty. As such it grants specific rights and protections to citizens of EU countries. For example, rights to free movement, settlement and employment. The right to vote in European electionsetc. It also confers the right to consular protection in countries where their home country (that or those which they carry a passport issued by) don't have representation. EU citizenship is not just some false label, it has legal meaning with real practical meaning. And was a strong identity for many of us.
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toffeeboy
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Post by toffeeboy on Feb 26, 2021 13:25:24 GMT
Britain hasn't been dragged to a different continent, it is still part of Europe. How hard is that for people to understand? Are the inhabitants of Iceland not European either? Norway, Switzerland etc... The European Union isn't a country, nation or continent. It is a union and nothing more, it isn't even a union of like minded countries anymore which is why myself and several others voted to leave it. The European Union doesn't have citizenships, countries have citizens not unions. I know the EU call people EU Citizens but there is no such thing and trying to pass itself off as a country is exactly what the EU wants. 1. You are wrong. see: Maastricht treaty. 2. Thanks for the attitude - it gives me renewed energy to fight to regain it. This is why I don't get into these things, I end up having to repeat myself because people don't listen. Just because the EU call their members EU citizens does not make them citizens the maarstrict treaty does not change this fact. I can call myself god or president of the EU it doesn't make it so. When people on the inside of something start referring to themselves as something they aren't then don't you think it starts to sound a bit like a cult??? Look the thing you aspire to be is "a citizen of an EU member state" well good news you can be. All you have to do is move to another country and live there then you will get your wish because the majority of the UK voted that they didn't want to be part of the EU. I should point out that I live in Ireland so live in the EU but still believe that the UK is better out of the EU even though it hamper me personally. I am guessing you also refer to Almond water as Almond Milk. One of the few things I like about the French is that they banned this artificial nonsense of calling something what it isn't to try and sell it.
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registerme
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Post by registerme on Feb 26, 2021 13:27:20 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2021 13:33:30 GMT
Anyone got on any sharper pins I could try dancing on the end of?
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toffeeboy
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Post by toffeeboy on Feb 26, 2021 14:51:13 GMT
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CitizenshipI can copy a link to wikipedia as well, as previously stated the EU is a union not a country or sovereign state so therefore doesn't have citizens. You will find the same but shortened definition in the dictionary. Just because you call something a name doesn't them one.
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michaelc
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Post by michaelc on Feb 26, 2021 15:00:50 GMT
I declared myself as Syldavian on the last one. Having worked for them over the Foot and Mouth period , read the returns , helped stupid people and found at least a third could use the rural situation to duck it entirely ,I deemed the whole enterprise to be a Cr&ck of Sh&t. Go ahead weave a fairytale. No one will notice.Sadly they will. I can easily imagine a BBC story after the census along the lines of "Number of Brits identifying themselves as European increases 10,000% " . Then in the text you'll see the increase based on the last census and the new one including Adrian and a few dozen other die hard remainers haha  More seriously, why do you need to have to pick just one?
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james100
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Post by james100 on Feb 26, 2021 15:25:57 GMT
1. You are wrong. see: Maastricht treaty. 2. Thanks for the attitude - it gives me renewed energy to fight to regain it. This is why I don't get into these things, I end up having to repeat myself because people don't listen. Just because the EU call their members EU citizens does not make them citizens the maarstrict treaty does not change this fact. I can call myself god or president of the EU it doesn't make it so. When people on the inside of something start referring to themselves as something they aren't then don't you think it starts to sound a bit like a cult??? Look the thing you aspire to be is "a citizen of an EU member state" well good news you can be. All you have to do is move to another country and live there then you will get your wish because the majority of the UK voted that they didn't want to be part of the EU. I should point out that I live in Ireland so live in the EU but still believe that the UK is better out of the EU even though it hamper me personally. I am guessing you also refer to Almond water as Almond Milk. One of the few things I like about the French is that they banned this artificial nonsense of calling something what it isn't to try and sell it. The concept and terminology of plant milks has been around for centuries. Nobody was trying to convince you these delicious nuts can actually lactate for commercial purposes. Also, EU membership and the rights and obligations that confers are pretty well documented so not much opportunity for cultism.
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registerme
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Post by registerme on Feb 26, 2021 16:03:03 GMT
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CitizenshipI can copy a link to wikipedia as well, as previously stated the EU is a union not a country or sovereign state so therefore doesn't have citizens. You will find the same but shortened definition in the dictionary. Just because you call something a name doesn't them one. Did you read the article you linked to? There's a section in it concerning EU citizens. Anyway, the argument is largely semantic. You don't think EU citizens are "citizens", whilst the EU and its population consider themselves to be citizens. I know who I side with.
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Feb 26, 2021 16:05:44 GMT
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james100
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Post by james100 on Feb 26, 2021 16:15:18 GMT
Hmmm...the google-translated marketing spiel makes it sound implausibly attractive. Maybe they can lactate after all 😁 "With its protein and calcium contribution, this almond milk is the ideal partner for breakfast. Poor in saturated fatty acids and still greedy for almonds, let yourself be tempted!"
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toffeeboy
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Post by toffeeboy on Feb 26, 2021 16:20:45 GMT
I don't keep up with french law but from articles I have read then yes I assume that this is banned unless they restricted the new law to just meat products although I was led to believe it was any name relating to meat product
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Post by bernythedolt on Feb 27, 2021 0:42:43 GMT
[...] I'm going to relish this bit, though...  Under the Census, "It is an offence to supply false information or to not complete the census, and you could be fined up to £1,000."Presumably most people here planning to complete the form exactly as shown above risk a fine for supplying false information. Note underneath the question the requirement to tick all that apply. Since most of us are English and British (let's say), that requires at least two boxes ticked. Those adding "European" presumably need to tick three boxes or risk a charge of supplying false information (or perhaps not completing the census). I understand the protest, but surely it carries a finite (if minuscule) risk of a penalty? On the other hand... As ever these days, HMG has introduced ambiguity. Historically the question would have been simply phrased, "What is your national identity?". Since being dumbed down to the more nebulous notion of "How would you describe...?", that of course is not subject to any meaningful test. Who can question how one chooses personally to describe some attribute? Like a fat person choosing to describe themselves as built for comfort - they're the only person who would! Hence they deserve millions of people to play silly buggers with their answer. GIGO.
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