macq
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Post by macq on Feb 26, 2021 23:08:02 GMT
Talking of platform risk but from search results done to night it would seem that HC did or were due to use AMSX (not sure if it came to pass) but it does make me wonder about integrated loans across platforms which seems to be the long term goal and the mess it might create in cases like this Its a very interesting point. However I know the feeling investors have when a platform goes into administration a mixture of anger and realisation that a long time of concern lies ahead, and I sympathise with all THC investors. Uninvolved people like myself tend not to be helpful. Maybe the discussion would sit better at the home of ASMX, it is clearly worth discussing if it could offer a partial solution in trading away viable loans (and maybe less viable, at a suitable price) How that would work in practice seems rather complex. The other aspect of cross contamination may suggest its really a non starter in any case. Funny i did end up back at their home base as the more i tried to look at it as a platform i ended up more confused
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michaelc
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Post by michaelc on Feb 26, 2021 23:34:35 GMT
Of course there are no guarantees. There are no guarantees of my stock broker going bust either but how many out of the total have done so? And how many p2p platforms have gone bust? Just take a look on this website how many are running and how many have gone bust. And are you suggesting a retail investor should do night classes in accountancy and then research any _ platform_ before they invest on it? retail lenders should invest in fintech-alchemy without any understanding of - the industry with no track record, - the industry the new boys are pretending to be better than, - the start-up platforms with nil capital adequacy and nil retail financial services experience, - debt and the companies they are lending to or the industries those companies are in? michaelc is that what you did? Waxing lyrical on forums is no substitute for understanding. Nor is having an annual poll. Understanding how to read P&L and Balance sheets is just a small fraction of the knowledge required to be involved in private debt through start up platforms in an industry that has many flaws. But hey it’s all someone else’s fault when it doesn’t work out. If I invest in a public company, fund, ETF whatever through Hargreaves Lansdown for example, I expect my biggest risk to be the company, fund, ETF, whatever. If I invest in a private company through Seedrs for example, I expect my biggest risk to be the company I invest in not Seedrs. If I bet cash through a spread trading platform like IG, I expect my largest risk to be the result of my speculation. In all those cases I don't expect to have to spend any significant resource conducting due diligence HL, IG, Seedrs etc etc. I expect to have to spend my time on the underlying investments. You have attempted to personalise the discussion with your comments (I've highlighted) and that makes me believe you are trolling. I have lost a relatively small sum in total in p2p but am aware there are many others who have lost what is for them large sums. It is probably not pleasant for them to have to read your comments. For that reason I will not continue this discussion.
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Greenwood2
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Post by Greenwood2 on Feb 27, 2021 8:41:21 GMT
I've never lent on the THC platform, but a quick scan of the website shows that it's quite similar to many that I do lend on. Therefore, I'm very interested to learn about what went wrong here, and what that might imply for other platforms. So, does anyone have any info on what actualy went wrong here? ..... Likewise. Were there warning signs like a slow train wreck, did it just fizzle out or was it a total surprise? The THC board seems to have been pretty quiet.
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Feb 27, 2021 8:52:41 GMT
You do realise is was reportedly all staged, THC were invited on and didnt want the investment anyway - allegedly How would I realise that? How would you realise it ? You don't actually believe entertainment programs on TV, do you...?
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agent69
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Post by agent69 on Feb 27, 2021 10:14:42 GMT
Just watched it (up to Debroah's verdict so far). Very interesting that she thought the main risk was the property market being iliquid and fluctuating and that people wouldn't realise that. I suspect many investors here (certainly myself) shared that view and we did realise that risk. Sadly its completely wrong as the risk of the platform is a much bigger risk and that is something you would have thought regulation could solve but they're nowhere near to doing so. You do realise is was reportedly all staged, THC were invited on and didnt want the investment anyway - allegedly Shock horror, reality TV programmes being staged.
Back in the early 90's the construction company I worked for priced the installation of a new footbridge across the River Camel at Wadebridge, North Devon (the bridge having been procured in advance by the Council). After it emerged that our price was the lowest we were approached by the Council who asked if we would carry out the works FOC, on the basis that the construction works would to be the subject of a 'challenge Anneka' programme. Somebody worked out that it would cost about £25k to be involved, so we politely declined (there went my one and only chance to meet the 1986 rear of the year)
Best part of the programme was that they needed a 150t capacity crane to lift the bridge into place. Normally you wouldn't see a crane this size in Cornwall once in a blue moon, but funnily enough on the day the bridge was due to be installed there was a spare one parked just down the road.
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Feb 27, 2021 10:27:21 GMT
Next you’ll be telling me the Business Pages Sunday Times guest columnist L*k* J*hns*n - famous British Entrepreneur - shouldn’t be taken seriously either. Who? Oh, the P*t*ss*r** V*l*r* fraud bloke?
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p2pfan
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Post by p2pfan on Feb 27, 2021 13:04:57 GMT
I'm obviously devastated at TheHouseCrowd going into Administration. The chances of me and other P2P lenders getting any money back are miniscule once the vultures such as the Administrators and lawyers can squeeze every penny they possibly can out of the carcass of this business for themselves. Having had a very disturbed night, one ray of light appeared: to confirm, should lenders not get their loans via TheHouseCrowd back (which I appreciate is a process that will, in all likelihood, take many years to be determined), would the losses quality for HMRC's " tax relief on unpaid loans?" That way, we can write-off our losses via THC against the taxes payable on earnings from other P2P loans? |
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Greenwood2
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Post by Greenwood2 on Feb 27, 2021 14:07:05 GMT
I'm obviously devastated at TheHouseCrowd going into Administration. The chances of me and other P2P lenders getting any money back are miniscule once the vultures such as the Administrators and lawyers can squeeze every penny they possibly can out of the carcass of this business for themselves. Having had a very disturbed night, one ray of light appeared: to confirm, should lenders not get their loans via TheHouseCrowd back (which I appreciate is a process that will, in all likelihood, take many years to be determined), would the losses quality for HMRC's " tax relief on unpaid loans?" That way, we can write-off our losses via THC against the taxes payable on earnings from other P2P loans? I know little about THC, but they seem to have the right permissions for P2P, the question may be whether you get paid interest or dividends. And anything held in an IFISA isn't eligible. I suspect some loans may be eligible for tax relief and some not. It is a bit confusing that THC are under the equities section of the forum. I'm sure someone out there has a definitive answer.
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ilmoro
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Post by ilmoro on Feb 27, 2021 14:30:44 GMT
I'm obviously devastated at TheHouseCrowd going into Administration. The chances of me and other P2P lenders getting any money back are miniscule once the vultures such as the Administrators and lawyers can squeeze every penny they possibly can out of the carcass of this business for themselves. Having had a very disturbed night, one ray of light appeared: to confirm, should lenders not get their loans via TheHouseCrowd back (which I appreciate is a process that will, in all likelihood, take many years to be determined), would the losses quality for HMRC's " tax relief on unpaid loans?" That way, we can write-off our losses via THC against the taxes payable on earnings from other P2P loans? It will depend on what your money is invested in AIUI (as a non user) the THC picture is somewhat complicated by the various different products they offer. P2P loans, including it seems development project appear to eligible as the platform has the required permission for eligibility, investment in BTL via an SPV dont, though may qualify for CGT relief The first point is that THC entering into administration is not a qualifying criteria, it is the underlying borrower that has to be in legal recovery for loans to be eligible or declared eligible by the platform (usually on the same basis) The administrators have no call on any money related to trust assets other than fees contractually due to THC and any costs associated with recovering defaulted loans. Under FCA rules in force from 2019 such fees/costs should clearly be stated on the website/individual loans. Unfortunately due to the website being moribund with only the home page functioning it is difficult to get a proper picture. Edit Just looked at a few of the development SPV, structured as trust and reference to lenders as defined in the loan agreement so certainly looks like those are P2P, note that no reference to THC as being a beneficiary of the security charge, though entitlements probably covered in loan agreement
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Mousey
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Post by Mousey on Feb 27, 2021 15:42:34 GMT
Paperwork filed at 15.38 on 24/2/2021:
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Post by mfaxford on Feb 27, 2021 15:49:55 GMT
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Greenwood2
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Post by Greenwood2 on Feb 27, 2021 17:48:45 GMT
How many lenders are there on THC? There has been little response on this thread are there not many lenders or not many lenders on the forum? Or are lenders just getting used to 'the bad news'?
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corto
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Post by corto on Feb 27, 2021 17:58:43 GMT
How many lenders are there on THC? There has been little response on this thread are there not many lenders or not many lenders on the forum? Or are lenders just getting used to 'the bad news'? Actually they have been sending "good news" every Friday for the last half a year or so. Review of the political landscape relevant to lending and finance. Always concluded with that they don't need to change their strategies. Quite misleading actually, if in reality they were fighting for survival. I don't know how many lenders they have. They had a bid limit of 1k, so supposedly not as many as AC, FC and the likes. Perhaps a few thousand? I tried to get out since 2019; but there was still a loan left that didn't pay back for ages... too bad .. let's see what the sharks leave for the lenders.
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Post by Ace on Feb 27, 2021 21:56:33 GMT
How many lenders are there on THC? There has been little response on this thread are there not many lenders or not many lenders on the forum? Or are lenders just getting used to 'the bad news'? This review ( thehumblepenny.com/the-house-crowd-review) stated that there were 27,000 members back in July 2019.
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Post by queenvictoria on Feb 28, 2021 10:32:34 GMT
How many lenders are there on THC? There has been little response on this thread are there not many lenders or not many lenders on the forum? Or are lenders just getting used to 'the bad news'? I am a small lender. £3k invested in HCP137 (Stockport) which is 'a large combination retail and residential unit in an excellent location in Stockport consisting of 4 x 2-bed flats, 6 x 1-bed flats and 2 retail units in a lovely building in a conservation area. The property is now fully let and the barbershop has asked for a 10-year lease on his unit. We will be looking to increase rentals as tenants leave and new ones arrive.' Purchased 6 years ago. Dividends received to date are just under £360 so 12% over 6 years. The explanation for poor earnings, I think, is that management and maintenance costs were higher than expected. Valued at £1m in 2018 and offered for sale in 2019. According to THC there have been offers but none at an acceptable level. Revaluation in mid-2020 came out at £725-750k due to pandemic, apparently. You would expect something to be rescuable from this property especially if it remains fully let but I expect that any proceeds will go to the adminstrators, lawyers, agents, valuers etc rather than to lenders.
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