keitha
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2024, hopefully the year I get out of P2P
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Post by keitha on Mar 2, 2021 10:33:46 GMT
Having been lead to believe for years that my vote is secret, I begin to doubt it.
After every election there are tables published in the press giving breakdowns by age and sex and locality of who voted which way. now unless this comes from polls which are notoriously inaccurate someone is analysing the papers.
This does of course explain the reason behind recording the number on your voting slip against your name and address.
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Mar 2, 2021 11:31:19 GMT
Step away from the conspiracy theories. The stats are flaky precisely because they're taken from surveys. No, I've never been asked, either. yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2019/12/17/how-britain-voted-2019-general-electionBallot papers are locked away after counting for a year. Then they're burnt. Yes, theoretically, your voting slip could be linked back to the electoral list from your polling centre. But... really...? The thought that THEY would bother is on a par with that silliness that goes around about pencils being so THEY can change your vote... |
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firedog
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Post by firedog on Mar 2, 2021 12:10:02 GMT
It will be done from the exit surveys.
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mikeb
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Post by mikeb on Mar 2, 2021 13:20:35 GMT
Having been lead to believe for years that my vote is secret, I begin to doubt it. After every election there are tables published in the press giving breakdowns by age and sex and locality of who voted which way. now unless this comes from polls which are notoriously inaccurate someone is analysing the papers. This does of course explain the reason behind recording the number on your voting slip against your name and address. Of course it's supposed to be a secret ballot -- it is possible to tie a vote back to a name and address as the voting slip has an "anonymous random" number on it which is transferred to the list of who-has-voted as it is handed to you. For vote verification, in the event of allegations of fraud. Would they bother? Don't know. What I do know is, shortly after a local election here, I received a letter, addressed to me by name @ my address, which contained a phrase along the lines "all the wonderful stuff above was made possible by people like you that voted for us, the XYZ party". This gave me pause for thought. They were right, I *did* vote for the named party. But how did they know that to write to me? You could argue it's ambiguous language, but that only works if they are right. Imagine as a e.g. Labour voter, getting a letter saying "All this Conservative wonderfullness was made possible by people like you that voted for us" -- that's going to be somewhat triggering (same applies for any pair of parties)  So I don't know what exactly went on there ...
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Mar 2, 2021 13:45:40 GMT
What I do know is, shortly after a local election here, I received a letter, addressed to me by name @ my address, which contained a phrase along the lines "all the wonderful stuff above was made possible by people like you that voted for us, the XYZ party". This gave me pause for thought. They were right, I *did* vote for the named party. But how did they know that to write to me? They didn't know you did, though. They know you were likely to - they know various bits of demographic information about you, and quite probably some direct canvass information indicating your general leanings. That's a part of how you ended up on their mailing list in the first place, after all... Have you ever been in contact with the party locally or nationally? Even had their candidate knock on your door, and receive sympathetic noises? It'd just go in the junk mail pile with a snort of derision, and be forgotten almost instantly. They're far from infallible - I've had supposedly targetted stuff off parties whose policies I wouldn't wipe my backside with for fear of catching something unpleasant... Just a bit of basic psychology on top of some CRM.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2021 16:57:52 GMT
When I go to vote, I make sure the various parties are not hanging around the electoral space and if they are I make a point of complaining to the officers.
When I'm asked how I vote, I make a point of staying with the person who asked and explain loudly that it is none of their business as a secret ballot is just that, I continue to do this until he/she has to stop other people asking.
I recommend this behaviour.
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ozboy
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Mine's a Large One! (Snigger, snigger .......)
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Post by ozboy on Mar 2, 2021 21:04:27 GMT
What does this even mean? The Electoral Commission identified 17 local authority areas at particular risk of electoral fraud as far back as 2014 and widespread abuse of postal voting was seen as a significant factor. Democratic Audit have also written reports on the subject. This is a well known and highly suspected Electoral Abuse in parts of West London, in particular....... One Borough has arguably the most hated and despised Leader in Local Politics, however they keep getting back in. Either they're as popular as the Voting would seem to indicate, or, ...............
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Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2021 9:17:40 GMT
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Mar 3, 2021 12:11:08 GMT
What does this even mean? The Electoral Commission identified 17 local authority areas at particular risk of electoral fraud as far back as 2014 and widespread abuse of postal voting was seen as a significant factor. Democratic Audit have also written reports on the subject. 2019 - "592 cases of alleged electoral fraud were investigated by the police. Of these, three led to a conviction and an individual was given a police caution."So there was actual evidence of just four cases in 2019. Nationally. In a year with more elections than normal - local authorities, general, EU, mayoral, PCC... Of the three convictions... One involved a candidate submitting nomination papers with a false signature allegedly from a supporter. One voted for himself and again for his son without being a formal proxy. One tried to remove a ballot box from the polling station after being told he couldn't vote. The caution was somebody who wasn't registered, and used his father's name to vote. I can't find a source for that 17 local authorities figure, but assuming it's accurate, it's out of 339 local authorities in England, 32 in Scotland, 22 in Wales, 11 in NI - a total of 404 nationally... So about 96% are not at risk.
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iRobot
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Post by iRobot on Mar 3, 2021 12:19:51 GMT
I can't find a source for that 17 local authorities figure, but assuming it's accurate, it's out of 339 local authorities in England, 32 in Scotland, 22 in Wales, 11 in NI - a total of 404 nationally... So about 96% are not at risk. I believe the list was originally 16 with one added at a later date*. The report can be found at the following link and the list of those " where there appears to be a greater risk of cases of alleged electoral fraud being reported" can be found (fittingly) on page 16. Electoral fraud in the UK. Final report and recommendations - January 2014
* Edit - found where I read it: see note 3 on p11 of this report.
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adrianc
Member of DD Central
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Post by adrianc on Mar 3, 2021 12:35:31 GMT
From the "Findings" in the "Executive Summary" to the academic report... "In the areas where fraud convictions have been issued in the past, the local community often works hard to repair the system and benefits from the support of electoral administration and local parties. On the other hand in some areas where fraud allegations have not been raised, the local activists do not feel they receive enough support to combat fraud, especially from the police and local political parties."And from the "Introduction" to it... "While allegations, and instances, of electoral fraud in UK elections have received growing attention in recent years, they continue to be relatively rare. Just over 1000 cases involving allegations of breaches of the Representation of the People Acts were reported to English police forces from 2008-13. From these cases, fewer than 20 have resulted in convictions for electoral offences."And from the "Foreward" to the Electoral Commission report... "Despite some high-profile cases in recent years when fraud has been detected and punished, there is no evidence to suggest that there have been widespread, systematic attempts to undermine or interfere with recent elections through electoral fraud. Later this year [2014] Individual Electoral Registration [replacing household registration] – a change that we have been calling for since 2003 – will tighten up voter registration."www.gov.uk/government/collections/individual-electoral-registration |
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Steerpike
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Post by Steerpike on Mar 3, 2021 12:55:17 GMT
The Electoral Commission identified 17 local authority areas at particular risk of electoral fraud as far back as 2014 and widespread abuse of postal voting was seen as a significant factor. Democratic Audit have also written reports on the subject. I can't find a source for that 17 local authorities figure, but assuming it's accurate, it's out of 339 local authorities in England, 32 in Scotland, 22 in Wales, 11 in NI - a total of 404 nationally... So about 96% are not at risk. If 17 are at particular risk, clearly it is a logical fallacy to deduce that all the others are at no risk.
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adrianc
Member of DD Central
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Post by adrianc on Mar 3, 2021 13:50:47 GMT
I can't find a source for that 17 local authorities figure, but assuming it's accurate, it's out of 339 local authorities in England, 32 in Scotland, 22 in Wales, 11 in NI - a total of 404 nationally... So about 96% are not at risk. If 17 are at particular risk, clearly it is a logical fallacy to deduce that all the others are at no risk. I don't think it's a fallacy to say that the ones that are excluded from the flagging as being at particular risk are not at that risk. But, please, feel free to read an implicit "particular" into my statement if you so wish.
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