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Post by shanghaiscouse on Jun 8, 2021 18:49:58 GMT
Has anyone figured out how to see how many pence in the pound the debt was sold for? Is that data available? I would like to know the nominal value of my loan parts sold and what was received for them.
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rogerthat
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Post by rogerthat on Jun 9, 2021 10:26:31 GMT
I have contacted FC raising this issue. Will let you know what is said, if I get a response...! Edit: FC's website "contact us" page states that response will be in 2 working days, just had automated email from then saying it will take up to 10 working days. So may be a while Heard back from FC. Sounds like sold loans will stay in the portfolio... "Please note they will not be removed from the portfolio for now. However, I will be sure to pass this feedback on to our management team for how we can improve this.". You realise that if loans are removed from the portfolio, that all historical reference or commentary lenders have/had for their loans, listed rather euphemistically under the heading "REPAYMENTS" will also disappear and for those of us that have a multitude of outstanding loans with unsatisfactory outcomes, that information will be gone for good. Be careful what you wish for as FC might consider your request opportunistic.
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Post by longjohn on Jun 9, 2021 11:56:06 GMT
Has anyone figured out how to see how many pence in the pound the debt was sold for? Is that data available? I would like to know the nominal value of my loan parts sold and what was received for them.
and also the fees that were charged and deducted from each debt before we got our (miserly) cut.
Finished your question.
I'm sure the answer will be that it's all in the big black box and perfectly ok and we should not bother ourselves about it.
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keitha
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Post by keitha on Jun 9, 2021 16:11:10 GMT
Has anyone figured out how to see how many pence in the pound the debt was sold for? Is that data available? I would like to know the nominal value of my loan parts sold and what was received for them. shanghaiscouse from my figures 69235 28.26% 18.19% 41.31% 69489 21.66% 17.40% 35.29% 63641 23.47% 20.01% 38.79% 66317 19.91% 18.29% 34.55% 66864 1.36% 17.92% 19.04% 73062 45.55% 16.92% 54.77% 55837 20.28% 19.37% 35.72% 56502 7.86% 19.78% 26.09% 66331 6.90% 26.16% 31.26% 66272 0.78% 26.27% 26.85% 69532 21.46% 27.78% 43.28% 66207 27.05% 30.11% 49.02% 69715 33.07% 32.69% 54.95% 66711 0.12% 30.92% 31.00% 69571 0.02% 32.70% 32.72% 53605 0.00% 30.53% 30.53% 28257 91.87% 35.00% 94.72% 66382 2.97% 32.69% 34.70% 66357 9.41% 32.61% 38.95% 44971 66.63% 32.47% 77.46% 66392 15.97% 33.00% 43.70% 66392 15.97% 33.00% 43.70% 69236 18.78% 32.72% 45.36% average 24.06% 25.97% 44.50%
first figure is total previous repayments, then what they sold for as a percentage of outstanding debt, then total repaid, so for me I got back 25.97% of the outstanding debt on average making a total of 44.5% return. If I take out loans defaulted after 1/11/20 then the average previous drops to 17.6 the Percentage of Outstanding drops to 20.03 and the total recovered to 34.37% given I think you'd mostly got out then I think this is probably a more accurate figure for you
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scooter
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Post by scooter on Jun 11, 2021 11:24:46 GMT
Reading through this post I think the overall tone is that it was a positive thing. I feel cheated, but then I felt cheated anyway... I'm interested to know if anyone has complained about the fire sale by Flippin' Cowboys (and I cleaned that up) and what the standard response was that they cooked up with the FCA before we knew anything about it. I'd do it myself but I would like make my complaint based on what the reply will be, if that makes sense.... 🤠🤠🤠ðŸ¤
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mikeb
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Post by mikeb on Jun 13, 2021 14:10:55 GMT
Has anyone figured out how to see how many pence in the pound the debt was sold for? Is that data available? I would like to know the nominal value of my loan parts sold and what was received for them. Yes, I did check to see how much they'd flogged off the debt for, fully expecting they'd completely miss their own claims. Below: "Capital" -- amount of outstanding capital on a £20 loan part, including collections/payment agreements to date, as at 1st June 2021. Let's not talk about the interest ... "Recovered" -- amount found amongst the ashes of the fire sale, once the smoke cleared. Capital, Recovered £5.93 £1.58 £14.51 £1.53 (was paying 24p/mo) £13.04 £1.44 (was paying 13p/mo) £9.18 £0.45 (was paying 10p/mo) £11.99 £1.08 (was paying 14p/mo) £15.41 £2.38 £14.80 £2.36 £16.96 £1.95 £16.51 £1.90 £7.22 £1.10 (was paying 31p/mo) £0.71 £1.83 £16.88 £1.94 £15.48 £2.46 £15.78 £0.77 £9.08 £0.45 £9.74 £0.47 £5.85 £0.29 (was paying 8p/mo) £14.93 £1.27 In a number of cases, where FC have said "this represents the amount we expected to recover over 5 years" in their announcement, I think they must be averaging out over a very selective set of figures, as some of these were paying back monthly amounts (due to recent plans put in place with guarantors etc.) for amounts that mean FC must be expecting them to stop paying again "any minute now" and then do nothing for 5 years. Hmmm. You work it out. 24p/month, £1.53 achieved in debt sale, that's about 6 months of payments.
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scooter
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Post by scooter on Jun 13, 2021 14:38:42 GMT
Has anyone figured out how to see how many pence in the pound the debt was sold for? Is that data available? I would like to know the nominal value of my loan parts sold and what was received for them. Yes, I did check to see how much they'd flogged off the debt for, fully expecting they'd completely miss their own claims. Below: "Capital" -- amount of outstanding capital on a £20 loan part, including collections/payment agreements to date, as at 1st June 2021. Let's not talk about the interest ... "Recovered" -- amount found amongst the ashes of the fire sale, once the smoke cleared. Capital, Recovered £5.93 £1.58 £14.51 £1.53 (was paying 24p/mo) £13.04 £1.44 (was paying 13p/mo) £9.18 £0.45 (was paying 10p/mo) £11.99 £1.08 (was paying 14p/mo) £15.41 £2.38 £14.80 £2.36 £16.96 £1.95 £16.51 £1.90 £7.22 £1.10 (was paying 31p/mo) £0.71 £1.83 £16.88 £1.94 £15.48 £2.46 £15.78 £0.77 £9.08 £0.45 £9.74 £0.47 £5.85 £0.29 (was paying 8p/mo) £14.93 £1.27 In a number of cases, where FC have said "this represents the amount we expected to recover over 5 years" in their announcement, I think they must be averaging out over a very selective set of figures, as some of these were paying back monthly amounts (due to recent plans put in place with guarantors etc.) for amounts that mean FC must be expecting them to stop paying again "any minute now" and then do nothing for 5 years. Hmmm. You work it out. 24p/month, £1.53 achieved in debt sale, that's about 6 months of payments. Conflict of interest? How much of FC's costs were cleared before cash was paid to investors? The only information given out about this sale was the full amount which coincidentally pleased the shareholders. How did they decide which loans to keep and which to sell? How can a loan which would pay back more in 6 months than the sale proceeds, be sold in investors best interests? The FOS will tell you that you signed t&cs that allow FC to act on your behalf as they see fit. We didn't. We allow them to act in the best interests of all investors. The good news is that the FOS will not compensate for future or uncertain losses, they will just compensate for hurt feelings. As the losses are now well and truly crystallised they can't use that excuse anymore. Anyway as we know transparency rules at FC so I'm sure they will give a full and frank response to my questions, even admitting if they got something wrong.... 🤠🤠🤠🤠ðŸ¤
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Jun 13, 2021 16:24:48 GMT
Very odd indeed...
FC didn't email me at all about this. Yet I've had two "DEBT SALE" loans show up in my transactions.
One owed me £14, and hadn't repaid a penny since 10p in 2018, after nothing since 2016... Nearly £2 back. I'm happy with that. The other... well... it'd already repaid me £2.50 more than the capital debt (last payment April 2020), and now another quid? I'm ecstatic with that!
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keitha
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Post by keitha on Jun 13, 2021 16:46:18 GMT
Reading through this post I think the overall tone is that it was a positive thing. I feel cheated, but then I felt cheated anyway... I'm interested to know if anyone has complained about the fire sale by Flippin' Cowboys (and I cleaned that up) and what the standard response was that they cooked up with the FCA before we knew anything about it. I'd do it myself but I would like make my complaint based on what the reply will be, if that makes sense.... 🤠🤠🤠🤠I'm not happy but I personally think some of these would never have repaid although so paying regularly seem to have been sold of for 6-7 months payments. I think we need to remember that when we invested we accepted the capital was at risk on some of these I had already written them off so any return is a bonus. If You read the T's and C's we gave them the right to do this so I'm pretty sure any complaint will go nowhere, see Scooter's post on page 2
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scooter
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Post by scooter on Jun 13, 2021 20:48:20 GMT
Reading through this post I think the overall tone is that it was a positive thing. I feel cheated, but then I felt cheated anyway... I'm interested to know if anyone has complained about the fire sale by Flippin' Cowboys (and I cleaned that up) and what the standard response was that they cooked up with the FCA before we knew anything about it. I'd do it myself but I would like make my complaint based on what the reply will be, if that makes sense.... 🤠🤠🤠🤠I'm not happy but I personally think some of these would never have repaid although so paying regularly seem to have been sold of for 6-7 months payments. I think we need to remember that when we invested we accepted the capital was at risk on some of these I had already written them off so any return is a bonus. If You read the T's and C's we gave them the right to do this so I'm pretty sure any complaint will go nowhere, see Scooter's post on page 2 Whilst I agree with what you say, it just gets my goat that in accepting that capital is at risk, it is also presumed that I accepted a company who sat on their hands, didn't carry out financial reviews, didn't push for increased recovery payments because they hadn't done the reviews, didn't pay any regard to Financial statements in the public domain, didn't act quickly to secure assets, didn't secure assets that they said they had secured, gave loans to companies based on accounts up to 14 months old, got delphi scores wrong and finally sold my "best" bad loans as a way to recover some of their costs. I didn't accept that! I accepted that they would act in investors best interests, that they would be transparent and that they would manage conflicts of interests. I will be happy enough when they show me how they did all that. 🤠🤠🤠ðŸ¤
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scooter
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Post by scooter on Jun 20, 2021 17:14:45 GMT
FC "We carried out a very thorough internal valuation process to estimate an appropriate pricing range for the loans and to ensure we received the best outcome for individual investors. This involved looking at the returns we expected to receive over the duration of the recovery process in a scenario where the loans were not sold, to ensure that the pricing we received was in line with this. We also looked at other factors and risks including potential economic distress.
Our internal valuation and methodology was also validated by a third party specialist valuation company.
We then also carried out a competitive bidding process to ensure we received the best price possible for individual investors. We only spoke to established and well-known players in the debt purchasing space to ensure we received competitive bids and also sought independent validation on the loans to ensure the pricing was optimised."
I am almost convinced... Looking at my own sales there is some very odd pricing. Some long term payers with security getting less as a percentage of the outstanding amount than others that have never paid.... I don't understand that all. If I'm honest I think I had more non payers getting higher sale prices than the other way round.
I would also like to understand how the ones they didn't sell were decided upon.
I do wonder why if they did all that they didn't say it in the original email to investors.
I also notice that alot of my 'payers' didn't pay the last payment so I wonder when borrowers were made aware of the sale and if they cancelled the dd.
I have asked what percentage of total sale price FC took for themselves. I think transparency may dry up at that point.
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keitha
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Post by keitha on Jun 28, 2021 14:07:04 GMT
HMM wondering if other defaulters have seen this and stopped paying, I've had nothing now in the way of recoveries for 20 days
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scooter
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Post by scooter on Jun 30, 2021 16:59:26 GMT
FC " We carried out a very thorough internal valuation process to estimate an appropriate pricing range for the loans and to ensure we received the best outcome for individual investors. This involved looking at the returns we expected to receive over the duration of the recovery process in a scenario where the loans were not sold, to ensure that the pricing we received was in line with this. We also looked at other factors and risks including potential economic distress.
Our internal valuation and methodology was also validated by a third party specialist valuation company.
We then also carried out a competitive bidding process to ensure we received the best price possible for individual investors. We only spoke to established and well-known players in the debt purchasing space to ensure we received competitive bids and also sought independent validation on the loans to ensure the pricing was optimised."I am almost convinced... Looking at my own sales there is some very odd pricing. Some long term payers with security getting less as a percentage of the outstanding amount than others that have never paid.... I don't understand that all. If I'm honest I think I had more non payers getting higher sale prices than the other way round. I would also like to understand how the ones they didn't sell were decided upon. I do wonder why if they did all that they didn't say it in the original email to investors. I also notice that alot of my 'payers' didn't pay the last payment so I wonder when borrowers were made aware of the sale and if they cancelled the dd. I have asked what percentage of total sale price FC took for themselves. I think transparency may dry up at that point. How were the loans included in the sale decided upon? FC _With regards to how the loans were decided, we picked all defaulted loans held by retail investors which were eligible for sale.
What was the reason for the unsold loans?
FC_There were some defaulted loans excluded from the sale, for example borrowers with loans held by different types of investors, insolvent businesses or defaulted loans that have been formally closed or settled. Our dedicated Collections and Recoveries team will continue to work closely with borrowers to recover funds for defaulted loans not included in the sale. When funds have been recovered, they will appear in your account as usual.
What percentage of the overall sale proceeds did FC / security holders take (Anyone other than investors)? Were Non Investors costs covered in full or up to 40%?
FC_Where applicable, Funding Circle has made deductions to cover any costs incurred during the recovery process on a loan by loan basis. Any deductions made were capped to ensure the amount was fair. Funding Circle did not profit from this sale. The proceeds from the sale have been distributed among the retail investors who lent on these loans. The amount deducted will vary from loan to loan, but will never exceed 40% of the outstanding principal at the time of default, and will in most cases be lower.
How did funding circle manage the conflict of interests between investors and itself when deciding to sell bad debts to another company? What issues did FC identify as possible COI and how did they manage the issue such that investors' interests were fairly represented?
FC _We are confident that we have acted in the best interests of all investors. We carried out a very thorough internal valuation process to estimate an appropriate pricing range for the loans and to ensure we received the best outcome for individual investors. This involved looking at the returns we expected to receive over the duration of the recovery process in a scenario where the loans were not sold; this was to ensure that the pricing we received was in line with this. We also looked at other factors and risks including potential economic distress.
Another lesson in how to answer questions and say very little... Well at least there is one thing they are good at.
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keitha
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Post by keitha on Jul 6, 2021 11:56:52 GMT
So a little over a month on
My Monthly recoveries prior were running at about £10 If I deduct the regular payers that were sold £7.50 I've actually had £1.25
recoveries that were like clockwork have stopped, perhaps they think if they stop paying they will be sold off and will be able to negotiate a deal to pay a lot less to clear the debt
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coogaruk
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Post by coogaruk on Jul 6, 2021 12:30:17 GMT
recoveries that were like clockwork have stopped, perhaps they think if they stop paying they will be sold off and will be able to negotiate a deal to pay a lot less to clear the debt 1) I don't think borrowers' minds work quite like that
and
2) borrowers whose debts have been sold off still retain those debts and will likely be chased harder for them going forward
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