keitha
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Post by keitha on Jun 6, 2021 9:09:15 GMT
Is due to be unveiled today, I find it incredibly sad that the few remaining veterans cannot attend in person but the BBC et al can send teams of reporters.
Surely this is one case where an exception to the rules would be welcomed by most of the British people, they will not have the chance to attend many more events.
To all the brave ex service personnel, Gentlemen and Ladies I salute you !
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ozboy
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Post by ozboy on Jun 6, 2021 17:35:18 GMT
Many years back the "Normandy Beach Landers" had their own Day of Remembrance & Parade in London so I went along to salute the Old Boys/Girls, knowing there would not be another Parade after this last one.
They all looked SO proud, men and women, and RIGHTLY so, but it was so sad seeing them dropping like flies as they stood to attention on a V warm day - the Medical Services were quite busy.
I clapped and cheered them loud and long because it was the very least I could do.
Youngsters today should NEVER forget the HUGE debt of gratitude we owe these *wonderful people.
"Lest we forget" indeed.
* Sure, they had NO choice, society dictated they join up and they HAD to land and face a hail of murderous fire, but would YOU do it?
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keitha
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Post by keitha on Jun 7, 2021 15:48:07 GMT
Many years back the "Normandy Beach Landers" had their own Day of Remembrance & Parade in London so I went along to salute the Old Boys/Girls, knowing there would not be another Parade after this last one. They all looked SO proud, men and women, and RIGHTLY so, but it was so sad seeing them dropping like flies as they stood to attention on a V warm day - the Medical Services were quite busy. I clapped and cheered them loud and long because it was the very least I could do. Youngsters today should NEVER forget the HUGE debt of gratitude we owe these *wonderful people. "Lest we forget" indeed. * Sure, they had NO choice, society dictated they join up and they HAD to land and face a hail of murderous fire, but would YOU do it? I saw a post on another forum recently asking for help, question was along the lines of "i've joined the Army, but i'm being bullied by my sergeant, he makes me get up at 6 in the morning,and shouts at me when I get things wrong" scarily most of the answers were along the lines of "this is bullying, it is infringing your human rights" to "punch him in the face, he will stop trying to make you get up so early" with people like that could we win a war.
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Jun 7, 2021 16:11:20 GMT
* Sure, they had NO choice, society dictated they join up and they HAD to land and face a hail of murderous fire, but would YOU do it? Fortunately, I'll never have to find out, because civilisation has moved on a long way and we now play nicely with other countries. Mostly.
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ozboy
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Post by ozboy on Jun 7, 2021 20:20:25 GMT
"..... with people like that could we win a war." ............ it's increasingly doubtful it seems to me keitha . I think most sane folk are appalled at how Liberal Politically Correct Wokery is now also infiltrating our Armed Forces, it has already neutered our Police. A quote from my local Plod a few weeks ago - " What you've got to understand OzBoy, is that we've gone from being a Police Force, to being a Police Service ."
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Post by bracknellboy on Jun 7, 2021 21:16:58 GMT
....A quote from my local Plod a few weeks ago - " What you've got to understand OzBoy, is that we've gone from being a Police Force, to being a Police Service ."
I suspect from that that your local bobby either doesn't know his history of UK policing, or yearns for an era in the 70's-80's which we should be very glad has been thrown into the dustbin of history; or perhaps more likely it was a flippant comment which simply lacks an understanding of some of the historic - and indeed contemporary - comparisons. The principles of modern policing in the UK were established by Peel: I'm sure you know that. He had a number of fundamental principles, but at the core was the philosophy of 'policing by consent', which might also be thought of as policing by the 'people for the people'. Consent in this context meaning the consent of the people as a whole (not an individual) as opposed to the will or force of the state. Those fundamentals are held as the fundamental philosophy of policing in the UK, Canada, New Zealand and Australia. They are not noted as being the operating principles in for example the US; nor indeed the likes of Russia, Zimbabwe, or Belarus. Yes the police in the UK too often have to deal with the b****x of idiots that spend their time complaining about their ex having dissed them on FB/Twitter/Snapchat/Instragram (or whatever the current set of in vogue social media platforms is), and treat some as 'customers' that should be thought of differently. Nonetheless, I'd rather be living in a society where the police are fundamentally a service to the population, than a force of the state. Likewise one where the self serving corruption (and racism/homophobia/misogony) that thrived in earlier decades - and is almost an inevitability where an institution sees itself firstly as an enforcer - has largely been broken. Despite all of the above, I perhaps get the gist of what might have been meant. But be careful what one wishes for.
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Post by bracknellboy on Jun 7, 2021 21:27:17 GMT
* Sure, they had NO choice, society dictated they join up and they HAD to land and face a hail of murderous fire, but would YOU do it? Fortunately, I'll never have to find out, because civilisation has moved on a long way and we now play nicely with other countries.Mostly. Well not really true though is it. Russia - Crimea/Georgia (take your pick). Yemen. Turkey and Kurdish Iran. Syria. The Maghreb. Ethiopia/Eritrea. Nagorno-Karabakh. The potential that is China/Taiwan. And that fails to even include very recent but not entirely current (West-Afghanistan; West-Iraq). Civilisation has not moved on in a global sense. Some of the frequent flash points of conflict have. So I'm not sure the mostly is justified. Just 'not here right now'.
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Jun 7, 2021 21:39:58 GMT
Fortunately, I'll never have to find out, because civilisation has moved on a long way and we now play nicely with other countries.Mostly. Well not really true though is it. Russia - Crimea/Georgia (take your pick). Yemen. Turkey and Kurdish Iran. Syria. The Maghreb. Ethiopia/Eritrea. Nagorno-Karabakh. The potential that is China/Taiwan. And that fails to even include very recent but not entirely current (West-Afghanistan; West-Iraq). Civilisation has not moved on in a global sense. Some of the frequent flash points of conflict have. So I'm not sure the mostly is justified. Just 'not here right now'. I think you actually just proved the "mostly". They certainly aren't conflicts on a scale that would require mass conscription. Notwithstanding that, military tech now is at a level that shitloads of cannon-fodder wouldn't ever be needed, anyway.
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registerme
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Post by registerme on Jun 7, 2021 22:04:38 GMT
Anybody interested in policing in the UK could do well by reading John Sutherland's blog. policecommander.wordpress.com/His last role in the police was as Borough Commander for Southwalk. I've met him a few times. I don't agree with everything he says, but I like him and respect him. I certainly trust him more than any Home Secretary I can think of in living memory. To get back on topic, I also like and respect almost everybody I've met who's either currently serving in our armed forces, or has done so. The generation who fought in WWII, we owe them more than can be expressed. Likewise (if not an entire "generation"), those who served in Burma, Korea, Oman, the Falklands, the Balkans, Iraq (twice) and Afghanistan. I'm in awe of them.
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pikestaff
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Post by pikestaff on Jun 7, 2021 23:47:02 GMT
Anybody interested in policing in the UK could do well by reading John Sutherland's blog. policecommander.wordpress.com/His last role in the police was as Borough Commander for Southwalk. I've met him a few times. I don't agree with everything he says, but I like him and respect him. I certainly trust him more than any Home Secretary I can think of in living memory.[...] I'm just old enough to remember Roy Jenkins. The last great home secretary we had. There's been none remotely like him for a very long time.
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Post by bracknellboy on Jun 8, 2021 6:41:35 GMT
Anybody interested in policing in the UK could do well by reading John Sutherland's blog. policecommander.wordpress.com/His last role in the police was as Borough Commander for Southwalk. I've met him a few times. I don't agree with everything he says, but I like him and respect him. I certainly trust him more than any Home Secretary I can think of in living memory.[...] I'm just old enough to remember Roy Jenkins. The last great home secretary we had. There's been none remotely like him for a very long time.Michael Howard ?
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Post by bracknellboy on Jun 8, 2021 6:54:04 GMT
Well not really true though is it. Russia - Crimea/Georgia (take your pick). Yemen. Turkey and Kurdish Iran. Syria. The Maghreb. Ethiopia/Eritrea. Nagorno-Karabakh. The potential that is China/Taiwan. And that fails to even include very recent but not entirely current (West-Afghanistan; West-Iraq). Civilisation has not moved on in a global sense. Some of the frequent flash points of conflict have. So I'm not sure the mostly is justified. Just 'not here right now'. I think you actually just proved the "mostly". They certainly aren't conflicts on a scale that would require mass conscription. Notwithstanding that, military tech now is at a level that shitloads of cannon-fodder wouldn't ever be needed, anyway.If it ever comes to a symmetric war between peer or near peer powers, then we will all be the cannon-fodder, whether voluntarily or otherwise. Just that most of us won't be wearing a uniform. Which is just one reason why for many years wars between the powers have been war by proxy. There is plenty of enforced enrollment into war, just not in the major powers who in many cases stand behind the scenes. I'm not sure that is a reflection of having achieved a higher level of civilisation. Still, Russia only completed its withdrawl from Afghanistan in 1989, not that long ago. And that certainly was a conscripted war. Are Russian conscripts fighting in the Donbas ? I agree that for thee and me, its fairly unlikely we'll ever end up in conscripted service: the time it would take to train us to do anything remotely useful would be longer than the crisis that we would be expected to contribute to, however it ended up.
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Jun 8, 2021 7:16:05 GMT
Still, Russia only completed its withdrawl from Afghanistan in 1989, not that long ago. And that certainly was a conscripted war. And Yugoslavia was even more recent. I know people my age who were conscripted in that. ...BUT...
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jonno
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nil satis nisi optimum
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Post by jonno on Jun 8, 2021 8:32:25 GMT
Anybody interested in policing in the UK could do well by reading John Sutherland's blog. policecommander.wordpress.com/His last role in the police was as Borough Commander for Southwalk. I've met him a few times. I don't agree with everything he says, but I like him and respect him. I certainly trust him more than any Home Secretary I can think of in living memory.[...] I'm just old enough to remember Roy Jenkins. The last great home secretary we had. There's been none remotely like him for a very long time. Mmm..........not sure I remember him; I do remember Woy Jenkins. Maybe he was his brother
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keitha
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Post by keitha on Jun 8, 2021 9:46:59 GMT
"..... with people like that could we win a war." ............ it's increasingly doubtful it seems to me keitha . I think most sane folk are appalled at how Liberal Politically Correct Wokery is now also infiltrating our Armed Forces, it has already neutered our Police. A quote from my local Plod a few weeks ago - " What you've got to understand OzBoy, is that we've gone from being a Police Force, to being a Police Service ."
Like the Guy up north who had plod turn up at his place of work to talk to him " he wasn't suspected of any offence, but I need to check your thinking" was what he was told by the officer concerned.
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