des
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Post by des on Jun 8, 2021 11:53:19 GMT
Wednesday 9th June 2021 - Loan Launch Details: - Borrower Sector: Energy
- Loan Amount: £500,000.
- Term: 36 months (12 months minimum term).
- Rate: 13% - Amortising (6 year repayment profile).
- Security: Debenture from Borrower, Debentures and Corporate Guarantees from Group Subsidiaries, Personal Guarantee.
- Instant Returns: Enabled.
- Loan Launch: 11am – 9th June 2021 (READ ONLY).
- Loan Live: 2pm – 9th June 2021
- Initial Bid Limit: £5,000
- Bid Limits Removed: 4pm - 9th June 2021
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criston
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Post by criston on Jun 9, 2021 10:19:01 GMT
'For this Tranche III, Lenders will be granted a debenture and corporate guarantee over the D*********** Organics Ltd'
Has a value been put on this security to give us an idea of the LTV ?
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nick
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Post by nick on Jun 9, 2021 11:30:14 GMT
'For this Tranche III, Lenders will be granted a debenture and corporate guarantee over the D*********** Organics Ltd' Has a value been put on this security to give us an idea of the LTV ? D*********** Organics Ltd was only incorporated earlier this month with £1 in share capital so probably has zero day one value. I personally place little financial value on guarantees and debentures as in practice I've found little value flows back from these on default. The real value they provide is the comfort that the ultimate controllers of the borrower will find it difficult to walk away from the liability by moving assets around or just giving up on the subsidiary borrower - i.e. their interests are aligned and they are going to feel as much, if not more, pain on any event of default. It's difficult to place a real value on the other corporate and personal guarantees as these entities/person is underwriting a lot of another debt across the corporate group and who knows what other investments. On this occasion, I find myself very reliant on the track record of AF and the significant investor interest in green energy projects generally in assessing whether and/or how much to bid.
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p2pfan
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Post by p2pfan on Jun 9, 2021 11:57:16 GMT
'For this Tranche III, Lenders will be granted a debenture and corporate guarantee over the D*********** Organics Ltd' Has a value been put on this security to give us an idea of the LTV ? D*********** Organics Ltd was only incorporated earlier this month with £1 in share capital so probably has zero day one value. I personally place little financial value on guarantees and debentures as in practice I've found little value flows back from these on default. The real value they provide is the comfort that the ultimate controllers of the borrower will find it difficult to walk away from the liability by moving assets around or just giving up on the subsidiary borrower - i.e. their interests are aligned and they are going to feel as much, if not more, pain on any event of default. It's difficult to place a real value on the other corporate and personal guarantees as these entities/person is underwriting a lot of another debt across the corporate group and who knows what other investments. On this occasion, I find myself very reliant on the track record of AF and the significant investor interest in green energy projects generally in assessing whether and/or how much to bid. I totally agree. I don't hold much value at all on such guarantees and debentures. If companies with this type of collateral go into administration, unless there are readily-sellable mainstream assets like most property, what is ultimately realised after the Vulchers Administrators and Lawyers take their hundreds of thousands or millions of pounds is relatively little. However, AF's reputation precedes him and I'm happy to lend because of his reliability. Let AF's ways of handling matters be a lesson to most other P2P borrowers who play silly-buggers time and again with repaying interest and capital and thinking their dirty tricks don't matter.
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blender
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Post by blender on Jun 9, 2021 14:07:07 GMT
I agree. Past performance of an investment must not be taken as a guarantee of future performance, but when it comes to people a track record tells you much about competence, reliability and integrity. Ablrate would be a much diminished platform without AF and all his works. So far, despite my occasional doubts about total group borrowing, this has been a mutually beneficial three-way relationship, and that counts for more than a debenture, imo.
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ptr120
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Post by ptr120 on Jun 23, 2021 14:35:23 GMT
Another tranche just announced.
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Post by Badly Drawn Stickman on Jun 23, 2021 20:00:40 GMT
Another tranche just announced. I notice underwriters are suitably lined up (I would suggest they will not be needed) ablrate is normally fairly 'upfront' when asked a direct question and curiosity (and logic) suggests the underwriters are on a 'retainer' to supply this service I wonder if this may be confirmed? the amount of said envisaged retainer would be nice to know as well. I can't help but feel this 'admittedly perceived funding' could be better employed encouraging mere mortals to commit earlier.
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p2pfan
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Post by p2pfan on Jun 25, 2021 12:37:40 GMT
RE: the impending 'FPW Energy Group Project Finance IV' I'm in two minds about it. I've already invested quite a bit into the previous tranches.
The security is an unknown in the sense of what would be realised in a real world Administration situation (unless there is a geek out there who is an expert on the resale value of energy generation plants, battery storage machinery and the like). In my experience with other Administrations, what is realised from niche products is almost always far lower than the borrowers and their valuers claim, leaving non-first-charge lenders with substantial or total losses.
On the other hand the borrower, Mr F***man, has a reputation that is second to none and is one of the only two or so people that - perhaps alongside the CEO of Ablrate - that I'd nominate to become the next Pope when the time comes.
Thoughts on the loan?
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ptr120
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Post by ptr120 on Jun 25, 2021 13:01:31 GMT
Already 20% gone, so there can't be too many concerns
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blender
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Post by blender on Jun 25, 2021 13:04:41 GMT
RE: the impending 'FPW Energy Group Project Finance IV' I'm in two minds about it. I've already invested quite a bit into the previous tranches. The security is an unknown in the sense of what would be realised in a real world Administration situation (unless there is a geek out there who is an expert on the resale value of energy generation plants, battery storage machinery and the like). In my experience with other Administrations, what is realised from niche products is almost always far lower than the borrowers and their valuers claim, leaving non-first-charge lenders with substantial or total losses. On the other hand the borrower, Mr F***man, has a reputation that is second to none and is one of the only two or so people that - perhaps alongside the CEO of Ablrate - that I'd nominate to become the next Pope when the time comes. Thoughts on the loan? On the popular Green Amber Red scheme this borrower is currently on my green list - while pubs and cars are red. However, as the borrowing deepens it may move to my green watch list, which involves a sequence of tests and may result in spending some time on ASMX as amber.
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Post by Badly Drawn Stickman on Jun 25, 2021 22:53:47 GMT
RE: the impending 'FPW Energy Group Project Finance IV' I'm in two minds about it. I've already invested quite a bit into the previous tranches. The security is an unknown in the sense of what would be realised in a real world Administration situation (unless there is a geek out there who is an expert on the resale value of energy generation plants, battery storage machinery and the like). In my experience with other Administrations, what is realised from niche products is almost always far lower than the borrowers and their valuers claim, leaving non-first-charge lenders with substantial or total losses. On the other hand the borrower, Mr F***man, has a reputation that is second to none and is one of the only two or so people that - perhaps alongside the CEO of Ablrate - that I'd nominate to become the next Pope when the time comes. Thoughts on the loan? I fear ablrate may lack several qualifications to become Pope, but would like to see him try on the frock and other paraphernalia. (in public, I have no leanings towards a private viewing of that nature) I have come to the conclusion that the assets will always be tenuous, and almost that it is not the key anyway. We get the rates we get because we are taking a risk in that area and actually investing in the potential of the loans to become worth the amount lent. In that area the platform has a good record (but not perfect) The previous tranches have invariably traded at a fair premium, so it was fairly obvious that it would fill reasonably quickly, it's a well established event. (Maybe the direct line to God was busy, when the underwriters nonsense was decided on) What I would like to see more of on this type of loan is performance updates - maybe every three months - showing how the potential is developing maybe in a video update delivered from a pulpit?
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blender
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Post by blender on Jun 26, 2021 9:21:30 GMT
ablrate for Pope? Shoes of the fisherman? This is dangerous talk. It is well known that you cannot serve both God and Mammon and we definitely need our debt collector to serve Mammon while at work. Or our capital is toast. Perhaps we could tolerate a role as, say, altar boy or chorister but any greater commitment would be risky. Anyway, I don't suppose that VI will become a Cardinal in time for the next papal election, nor that many existing Cardinals will read this thread. But let's not give ablrate ideas.
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dave4
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Post by dave4 on Jun 26, 2021 11:18:55 GMT
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criston
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Post by criston on Jun 26, 2021 11:48:15 GMT
142 was said to have a maximum of 60% LTV with 6 months retained interest. So say 56% LTV. based on £1.228m loan. Amortised to £1.134m.
160 was said to have a value of £750k so 53% LTV based on £400k loan.
161 & 162 total loan £1m, now appears to be lumped in with previous two loans, but without individual value or LTV.
However, FPW net assets said to be £3.8m of which all 4 loans are a part of.
So £1134k+£400k+£1000k= £2.534m/£3.8m = 67% LTV reducing due to amortisation.
Could do without further tranches set against the same assets.
Any differing observations would be appreciated.
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GreenZero
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The early bird may get the worm, but it's the second mouse who gets the cheese
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Post by GreenZero on Jun 26, 2021 20:05:10 GMT
I think 142 initially sought £2.5m, however only filed £1,228,500 and was the first tranche in a possible series of loans up to £11m which would make an intereting LTV.
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