cwah
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Post by cwah on Jun 17, 2021 17:52:50 GMT
Hello, I'd like to invest in EIS/SEIS funds as well as individual companies. The only ones I know are the like of Crowdcube, which most of the time have over-subscribed startup and not that interesting. The key benefit would be to have a 30-50% tax saving! I'm currently investing using Interactive Broker but I'm completely lost how to invest in any of these, and how to benefit from tax advantages.. I've seen these 2 websites: - www.wealthclub.co.uk/eis-investments/- www.rlc.ventures/blog/list-of-eis-and-seis-fundsBut they look like completely private investment? I don't really trust these and prefer to go through a recognized brokers such as IB. Any of you do that? Where to look? Thank you
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Mike
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Post by Mike on Jun 17, 2021 18:18:46 GMT
Can recommend wealthclub (AKA club finance), though I've not invested in S/EIS only VCTs but my experiences of their customer service have always been very good.
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dead-money
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Post by dead-money on Jun 17, 2021 19:31:27 GMT
Syndicate rooms runs an EIS fund, lower minimum investment value than a lot of Wealth Clubs offerings.
Individual EIS/SEIS on crowdcube wouldn't touch with a someone else's bargepole. Seedrs marginally better, but do your own due diligence, don't take the sales pitch as gospel.
Look at ecf.buzz for a jaundiced worts and all look at the wild wild west that is startup funding.
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corto
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one-syllabistic
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Post by corto on Jun 17, 2021 19:42:27 GMT
Aren't Seedrs and Crowdcube going to merge?
60% startups crunch in the first 5 years. Good Luck!
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ilmoro
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'Wondering which of the bu***rs to blame, and watching for pigs on the wing.' - Pink Floyd
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Post by ilmoro on Jun 17, 2021 19:57:49 GMT
Aren't Seedrs and Crowdcube going to merge? 60% startups crunch in the first 5 years. Good Luck! No. Blocked by the CMA.
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daveb
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Post by daveb on Jun 20, 2021 21:15:32 GMT
Seedrs and Crowdcube have a lot of EIS/SEIS startups. Syndicate Room is now more of a black box for investing VCTs give you much the same deal Seedrs is probably the most liquid in that they do have a secondary market if you want to sell after the qualifying period for tax relief-and if anyone wants to buy
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Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2021 7:43:03 GMT
The tax savings are useful but they come with much higher risks. Saving on tax when all you actually get is a massive loss doesn't really work because all you get is a massive loss. There are real benefits for the private retail investor to invest within the tax paying sector as the chancellor takes some of the risk with you (you lose he loses, you win he wins).
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cwah
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Post by cwah on Jun 21, 2021 9:13:32 GMT
The tax savings are useful but they come with much higher risks. Saving on tax when all you actually get is a massive loss doesn't really work because all you get is a massive loss. There are real benefits for the private retail investor to invest within the tax paying sector as the chancellor takes some of the risk with you (you lose he loses, you win he wins). What are the tax paying sectors?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2021 9:23:56 GMT
tax paying sectors are what I guess you could call the norm, so not ISA, not SIPP, not EIS, not some venture capital tools.
I tend to put my risky investments in the normal taxable regime so Sunak can share in my risk I tend to put my less risky investments in ISA and SIPP as I don't want to share my profits Putting high risk with no loss protection seems to me to be the wrong way around but I guess you also get no tax on the profit
But then again I'm happy making 10% after tax every year, if you are after more you have to think differently
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cwah
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Post by cwah on Jun 21, 2021 11:15:33 GMT
tax paying sectors are what I guess you could call the norm, so not ISA, not SIPP, not EIS, not some venture capital tools.
I tend to put my risky investments in the normal taxable regime so Sunak can share in my risk I tend to put my less risky investments in ISA and SIPP as I don't want to share my profits Putting high risk with no loss protection seems to me to be the wrong way around but I guess you also get no tax on the profit
But then again I'm happy making 10% after tax every year, if you are after more you have to think differently
I'm doing the opposite. Sunak doesn't really share that much risk on my taxable account. Because I can only offset capital loss against capital gain. So the money I put on my taxable account will always be taxed before I can invest. However, on my SIPP. That's where I put my high risk investment. Income tax is deducted from my investment, so I know if I lose money on it, there will be at least 20% deduction from the blow on the income tax. Something important to bear in mind in this decision, is that CGT is only 10% on the basic rate and 20% on the higher rate. And you also have £12.5K allowance/year on top of that. So you'll never deduct as much tax than with a SIPP because income tax starts at 20%. To summarise, with normal taxable account, if I lose £10k this year. Next year I'll still have to pay income tax and it can only be offset against capital gain over £12.5k. On top of that, the losses can only be carried forward by 4 years. So if for few years my gain are under £12.5k, I can lose the allowance all together! On a SIPP, if I lose £10k this year, I know that 20% of the losses have been shared with the taxman, which is £2k.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 22, 2021 11:02:17 GMT
I've had to re-read this a number of times to really understand what you are trying to say, hence the long delay in a response.
I think your income tax is returned to you when you put money into a SIPP thereafter your investments there are un-taxed until you start to withdraw, so absolutely, making a SIPP contribution or an ISA contribution is a good thing.
I find it hard to imagine a year when I didn't make capital gains well over £12k and since it is free money my advice would be to always release sufficient gains to hit that figure. Having loses, of course, allows you to be more felxible in that regard which is why I have found it useful to have my risks in this part of my assets.
Good luck with your distribution of risk it seems the wrong way around to me but these are your decisions.
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cwah
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Post by cwah on Jun 22, 2021 17:45:34 GMT
I've had to re-read this a number of times to really understand what you are trying to say, hence the long delay in a response.
I think your income tax is returned to you when you put money into a SIPP thereafter your investments there are un-taxed until you start to withdraw, so absolutely, making a SIPP contribution or an ISA contribution is a good thing.
I find it hard to imagine a year when I didn't make capital gains well over £12k and since it is free money my advice would be to always release sufficient gains to hit that figure. Having loses, of course, allows you to be more felxible in that regard which is why I have found it useful to have my risks in this part of my assets.
Good luck with your distribution of risk it seems the wrong way around to me but these are your decisions.
Ok. However I can't see how you can save more on tax from losses than with SIPP. You ALWAYS deduct income tax on the SIPP. The consequences are: 1. When your SIPP loses money, you'll save on income tax. 2. And if your SIPP makes great gain and reaches the Lifetime Allowance (About £1M)... you are taxed 50%. So really the SIPP is made for high(er) risk investment. It protect you more from the downside and tax you more on the upside. I can't see why you'd put the safe investment there.
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hazellend
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Post by hazellend on Jun 22, 2021 20:23:13 GMT
I’ve invested with syndicate room EIS funds and recommend them if you are determined to have EIS/SEIS.
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cwah
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Post by cwah on Jun 22, 2021 21:24:04 GMT
I’ve invested with syndicate room EIS funds and recommend them if you are determined to have EIS/SEIS. Would be interested but before buying want to know what special about them?
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hazellend
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Post by hazellend on Jun 23, 2021 12:56:16 GMT
I’ve invested with syndicate room EIS funds and recommend them if you are determined to have EIS/SEIS. Would be interested but before buying want to know what special about them? They claim superior picks backed by successful angel investors and do a lot of due diligence. Definitely DYOR! They have a lot of information about their funds on their website and you can self invest as well
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