adrianc
Member of DD Central
Posts: 10,011
Likes: 5,141
Member is Online
|
Post by adrianc on Dec 28, 2021 9:34:04 GMT
Or alternatively, don't look any further if you've found a definition that suits your position.
The 'lady' in question said 'why are the hands on our levers of power ‘hideously white’?' From my persppective what she was saying is that she finds the current situation unpleasant, offensive and detestable.
Former England cricket captain Michael Vaughan is alleged to have said (in relation to Asian players at Yorkshire Cricket Club) 'there's too many of you lot'. Even though the claim is disputed he lost his job with Sky Sports. Assuming he did say that, is it any more offensive than what the Labour MP is known to have said. I don't expect the spineless Starmer to take any action against her.
Rookie error... you've overlooked rule number one of the discrimination industry rulebook: people of white can never be victims. Others can be mortally offended, but we have to suck it up. Always been that way. Yes, us white people are so oppressed, so deprived. We SHOULD have every single position of power! It's our birthright, dammit! How very dare THEY try to deprive us of just a fraction of it?
|
|
agent69
Member of DD Central
Posts: 6,043
Likes: 4,437
|
Post by agent69 on Dec 28, 2021 10:11:38 GMT
Or alternatively, don't look any further if you've found a definition that suits your position.
The 'lady' in question said 'why are the hands on our levers of power ‘hideously white’?' From my persppective what she was saying is that she finds the current situation unpleasant, offensive and detestable.
Former England cricket captain Michael Vaughan is alleged to have said (in relation to Asian players at Yorkshire Cricket Club) 'there's too many of you lot'. Even though the claim is disputed he lost his job with Sky Sports. Assuming he did say that, is it any more offensive than what the Labour MP is known to have said. I don't expect the spineless Starmer to take any action against her.
Rookie error... you've overlooked rule number one of the discrimination industry rulebook: people of white can never be victims. Others can be mortally offended, but we have to suck it up. Always been that way. Can you imagine the uproar if Michael Vaughan had said that Yorkshire cricket club was hideously asian?
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2021 10:15:37 GMT
Yes, us white people are so oppressed, so deprived. We SHOULD have every single position of power! It's our birthright, dammit! How very dare THEY try to deprive us of just a fraction of it? I live in a constituency with some of the most deprived areas in the whole of the UK. Majority population? 90%+ White. It was hilarious watching Corbynites with exactly that 'white people are so privileged' attitude trying to canvas in the last election. They got laughed out of the place. And that is how some of the most deprived areas in the country ended up voting Tory.
|
|
agent69
Member of DD Central
Posts: 6,043
Likes: 4,437
|
Post by agent69 on Dec 28, 2021 10:32:17 GMT
Rookie error... you've overlooked rule number one of the discrimination industry rulebook: people of white can never be victims. Others can be mortally offended, but we have to suck it up. Always been that way. Yes, us white people are so oppressed, so deprived. We SHOULD have every single position of power! It's our birthright, dammit! How very dare THEY try to deprive us of just a fraction of it? I don't think anyone is saying this.
So, does this woman's claim that white people have a disproportionate level of control over the levers of power stand scruitny? Well about 20% of the UK population is non white, and 25% of the cabinet top jobs are held by non white MP's.
Given that only 16% of the shadow cabinet are non white, I wonder if this lady needs to start her crusade a bit nearer home.
|
|
pikestaff
Member of DD Central
Posts: 2,187
Likes: 1,546
|
Post by pikestaff on Dec 28, 2021 10:58:37 GMT
Who is the racist here? This woman was narrowly beaten for the chair of the home affairs committee and she uses this disgusting language. ‘hideously white’
I'd like to try to bring some sense back to this discussion. How many of the people commenting here have actually read the linked article? The words "hideously white" appear twice, both times in quotes. First in the headline of the article: In a diverse Commons, why are the hands on our levers of power ‘hideously white’?
And secondly in the concluding paragraph, reproduced below: "In parliament’s shop window, we have the most diverse house ever with Priti Patel, Rishi Sunak, Kwasi Kwarteng and Sajid Javid in powerful public roles, but in committee-land, where important stuff happens without the Punch and Judy style spectacle, it’s still “hideously white” (as Greg Dyke once described the BBC). As we head into 2022, is that acceptable?"Plainly the sense used by Greg Dyke, and that intended to be understood by readers of the article, is that of very/excessively. The article's key message is summarised beneath the title, as follows: "There are 30 chairs of the key select committees. Not one is a black or minority ethnic MP. It’s not a good look"So all the author is saying is that the 30 chairs taken as a whole are excessively white. It's hard to disagree with that, and it is not remotely racist to say it. All that said, the choice of headline was unwise. As the discussion here shows, the language used could easily be taken out of context and misinterpreted or wilfully misapplied. Edit: Crossed with the last post of agent69 . I'd add that 16% vs 20% is not significantly different, but 0% vs 20% is very significant indeed!
|
|
|
Post by bernythedolt on Dec 28, 2021 12:58:46 GMT
Who is the racist here? This woman was narrowly beaten for the chair of the home affairs committee and she uses this disgusting language. ‘hideously white’
So all the author is saying is that the 30 chairs taken as a whole are excessively white. It's hard to disagree with that, and it is not remotely racist to say it. Are you sure it's not remotely racist? Let's reverse the colours and imagine the same discussion about, say, a predominantly black African country. If a white MP dared to say those 30 chairs are excessively black, they would instantly be branded a racist and their career would be in tatters.
|
|
|
Post by bernythedolt on Dec 28, 2021 13:50:44 GMT
Rookie error... you've overlooked rule number one of the discrimination industry rulebook: people of white can never be victims. Others can be mortally offended, but we have to suck it up. Always been that way. Yes, us white people are so oppressed, so deprived. Actually I was deprived, based purely on the colour of my skin. Promotions in my workplace (Civil Service) were always based on merit. If you had a string of good annual appraisals, a promotion panel might pick you up and call you for interview. You could apply, but it went through a sift process where your application for interview was quite likely to fail. Then came a time when they discriminated against white people like me. My ethnic colleagues were told they could apply and they would be guaranteed an interview, whatever their appraisal history. Promotion on merit was no longer the yardstick. Yes, as a victim who was annually discriminated against because of the colour of my skin, I can tell you it feels sickening.
|
|
agent69
Member of DD Central
Posts: 6,043
Likes: 4,437
|
Post by agent69 on Dec 28, 2021 14:03:07 GMT
Who is the racist here? This woman was narrowly beaten for the chair of the home affairs committee and she uses this disgusting language. ‘hideously white’
I'd like to try to bring some sense back to this discussion. How many of the people commenting here have actually read the linked article? The words "hideously white" appear twice, both times in quotes. First in the headline of the article: In a diverse Commons, why are the hands on our levers of power ‘hideously white’? And secondly in the concluding paragraph, reproduced below: "In parliament’s shop window, we have the most diverse house ever with Priti Patel, Rishi Sunak, Kwasi Kwarteng and Sajid Javid in powerful public roles, but in committee-land, where important stuff happens without the Punch and Judy style spectacle, it’s still “hideously white” (as Greg Dyke once described the BBC). As we head into 2022, is that acceptable?"Plainly the sense used by Greg Dyke, and that intended to be understood by readers of the article, is that of very/excessively. The article's key message is summarised beneath the title, as follows: "There are 30 chairs of the key select committees. Not one is a black or minority ethnic MP. It’s not a good look"So all the author is saying is that the 30 chairs taken as a whole are excessively white. It's hard to disagree with that, and it is not remotely racist to say it. All that said, the choice of headline was unwise. As the discussion here shows, the language used could easily be taken out of context and misinterpreted or wilfully misapplied. Edit: Crossed with the last post of agent69 . I'd add that 16% vs 20% is not significantly different, but 0% vs 20% is very significant indeed! 20% of the popultion is non white, 10% of MP's are non white, so if all other things were equal then there should be 3 non white chairs of about 30 committees.
The problem I have is that it is obvious that people from different ethnic groups excel at different things. Nobody complains when you see mens tennis or snooker or darts on the telly, and all the top competitors are white. Similarly watching basketball from the states where it is often difficult to spot a single white person among the 10 players on court. However, it becomes a lot more difficult when the mechanism for comparing people is subjective (for example who is the best MP or company director). In this latter scenario it's a lot easier to play the race card (it appears that the disaffected Ms Huq is more concerned with the colour of the chairs skin, rather than their ability).
So if you apply racial quotas you get 3 non white chairs. However, the number of non white MP's has increased over the last few elections so many of them will be relatively inexperienced. Is it unreasonable for an experienced white MP to get the gig ahead of an inexperienced non whie MP?
So Ms Huq lost out in the election by labour MP's for chair of the Home affairs select committee. She was beaten by another female Labour MP who happens to be white, and has nearly 3 times the amount of parlimentary experience (no suprise there then).
Finally, I wonder if Ms Huq had won the election for chair, would she still be complaining about the others?
|
|
adrianc
Member of DD Central
Posts: 10,011
Likes: 5,141
Member is Online
|
Post by adrianc on Dec 28, 2021 14:33:31 GMT
Yes, us white people are so oppressed, so deprived. Actually I was deprived, based purely on the colour of my skin. Promotions in my workplace (Civil Service) were always based on merit. If you had a string of good annual appraisals, a promotion panel might pick you up and call you for interview. You could apply, but it went through a sift process where your application for interview was quite likely to fail. Then came a time when they discriminated against white people like me. My ethnic colleagues were told they could apply and they would be guaranteed an interview, whatever their appraisal history. Promotion on merit was no longer the yardstick. Yes, as a victim who was annually discriminated against because of the colour of my skin, I can tell you it feels sickening. Not gaining the benefit of positive discrimination is not the same as being discriminated against. Your colleagues gained an interview they may not have had based on merit alone. You did not have that opportunity, so your application was purely judged on merit - while you failed to be interviewed because your application was not deemed to merit it. I presume that the result of the interviews, and the appointment arising from it, would have been on merit alone?
|
|
pikestaff
Member of DD Central
Posts: 2,187
Likes: 1,546
|
Post by pikestaff on Dec 28, 2021 14:58:17 GMT
Actually I was deprived, based purely on the colour of my skin. Promotions in my workplace (Civil Service) were always based on merit. If you had a string of good annual appraisals, a promotion panel might pick you up and call you for interview. You could apply, but it went through a sift process where your application for interview was quite likely to fail. Then came a time when they discriminated against white people like me. My ethnic colleagues were told they could apply and they would be guaranteed an interview, whatever their appraisal history. Promotion on merit was no longer the yardstick. Yes, as a victim who was annually discriminated against because of the colour of my skin, I can tell you it feels sickening. Not gaining the benefit of positive discrimination is not the same as being discriminated against. Your colleagues gained an interview they may not have had based on merit alone. You did not have that opportunity, so your application was purely judged on merit - while you failed to be interviewed because your application was not deemed to merit it. I presume that the result of the interviews, and the appointment arising from it, would have been on merit alone? Hmmm. If the number of interview slots was fixed then bernythedolt may have been discriminated against, depending on whether he would have got a slot in the absence of positive discrimination. And if there is pressure from above to increase the representation of particular groups (whatever they may be) it is very likely to be reflected in those ultimately appointed. That's just a fact of life, which cannot be wished away. Speaking to my own experience, I spent much of my career in a professional firm which wanted to increase women's representation at director/partner level. I felt more than once that my gender had cost me an interview. However, I also felt that (on average) the quality of women appointed to senior roles was at least as high if not higher than that of the men. And, if I am honest with myself, they were (on average) better than me too.
|
|
|
Post by bernythedolt on Dec 28, 2021 15:02:13 GMT
Actually I was deprived, based purely on the colour of my skin. Promotions in my workplace (Civil Service) were always based on merit. If you had a string of good annual appraisals, a promotion panel might pick you up and call you for interview. You could apply, but it went through a sift process where your application for interview was quite likely to fail. Then came a time when they discriminated against white people like me. My ethnic colleagues were told they could apply and they would be guaranteed an interview, whatever their appraisal history. Promotion on merit was no longer the yardstick. Yes, as a victim who was annually discriminated against because of the colour of my skin, I can tell you it feels sickening. Not gaining the benefit of positive discrimination is not the same as being discriminated against. My white colleagues and I struggled to see the difference. And you see that as okay? Merit should be the sole criterion. Skin colour shouldn't have entered into it. If only. Empirical evidence didn't support that and we ended up with some idiot managers who could talk a good game, but if you scratched the surface there was just more surface underneath. Remember the CS was under pressure to fill senior posts with ethnic minorities. This was a quota-based exercise, and not merit-based.
|
|
travolta
Member of DD Central
Posts: 1,506
Likes: 1,214
|
Post by travolta on Dec 28, 2021 15:08:21 GMT
and she's really ugly.
|
|
pikestaff
Member of DD Central
Posts: 2,187
Likes: 1,546
|
Post by pikestaff on Dec 28, 2021 15:26:19 GMT
So all the author is saying is that the 30 chairs taken as a whole are excessively white. It's hard to disagree with that, and it is not remotely racist to say it. Are you sure it's not remotely racist? Let's reverse the colours and imagine the same discussion about, say, a predominantly black African country. If a white MP dared to say those 30 chairs are excessively black, they would instantly be branded a racist and their career would be in tatters. Yes. And I think you are mistaken about your hypothetical. Edit: Just to amplify my second statement, the only black African country with a significant white minority is South Africa (8-9% white). I think most South Africans understand racism well enough to understand that such a statement would not, of itself, be racist. Which is not to deny that some politicians or controversialists might look to make something of it. As it happens one difference between the South African and British political systems is that all South African parliamentary committees are chaired by MPs from the ruling party, the ANC. These days there are very few white MPs in the ANC (although one is a minister and another a deputy minister). As far as I can tell from their photos there is either 0 or 1 white committee chair. The others are all black or "coloured" (horrible term). www.parliament.gov.za/person-details/38www.parliament.gov.za/person-details/99www.parliament.gov.za/committee-chairpersons
|
|
registerme
Member of DD Central
Posts: 6,624
Likes: 6,437
|
Post by registerme on Dec 28, 2021 16:59:44 GMT
|
|
agent69
Member of DD Central
Posts: 6,043
Likes: 4,437
|
Post by agent69 on Dec 28, 2021 17:12:57 GMT
Are we still talking about Rupa?
Her sister was the longest running female presenter of Blue Peter, and was definately a bit of a looker (eat your heart out Valerie Singleton)
|
|