keitha
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2024, hopefully the year I get out of P2P
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Post by keitha on Jun 8, 2022 10:20:50 GMT
It's contempt of court, right? Not contempt of a or the judge per se? So what's really happening is that somebody is being punished for showing contempt towards a system that the vast majority of us (are expected to) respect, no? And I doubt, very much indeed, that the beneficiary wears a wig. But punishable by prison ? This is in a country where I could go and smash a random person the face and almost certainly not face prison as long as the person recovered. How can you compare the two crimes? One of "disrespect" for a system and another of animal violence? that the system has been set up to deal witrh? People go to jail every year for not paying Council tax or TV licence. But yes Magistrates and higher courts are inconsistent. I've read of cases recently where someone Caused brain damage in a fight and gets 3 months,and another person on the same day get 6 months for shoplifting. It also appears that if you are wealthy the penalty is lower or a clever lawyer gets you off on an obscure technicality. What really get me is when you see Smith who has 48 previous driving offences and was banned from driving at the time was banned from driving for 12 months,for pitys sake he'll just ignore it
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michaelc
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Post by michaelc on Jun 8, 2022 12:26:40 GMT
But punishable by prison ? This is in a country where I could go and smash a random person the face and almost certainly not face prison as long as the person recovered. How can you compare the two crimes? One of "disrespect" for a system and another of animal violence? that the system has been set up to deal witrh? People go to jail every year for not paying Council tax or TV licence. But yes Magistrates and higher courts are inconsistent. I've read of cases recently where someone Caused brain damage in a fight and gets 3 months,and another person on the same day get 6 months for shoplifting. It also appears that if you are wealthy the penalty is lower or a clever lawyer gets you off on an obscure technicality. What really get me is when you see Smith who has 48 previous driving offences and was banned from driving at the time was banned from driving for 12 months,for pitys sake he'll just ignore it Completely agree. In practice a lot of violent crime doesn't involve prison sentences for the first offence. What Adrian failed to mention in his copy/paste was the minimum sentence is typically zero. As you say the sentences seem wildly different. Now I'm going to stick my neck out (even further!) and suggest that most judges have come through the legal route. So they know the law very well, they are masters of english, logic, argument, reason etc. But do they all possess the same set of morals that sentencing requires?
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Post by bracknellboy on Jun 8, 2022 13:51:45 GMT
People go to jail every year for not paying Council tax or TV licence. But yes Magistrates and higher courts are inconsistent. I've read of cases recently where someone Caused brain damage in a fight and gets 3 months,and another person on the same day get 6 months for shoplifting. It also appears that if you are wealthy the penalty is lower or a clever lawyer gets you off on an obscure technicality. What really get me is when you see Smith who has 48 previous driving offences and was banned from driving at the time was banned from driving for 12 months,for pitys sake he'll just ignore it Completely agree. In practice a lot of violent crime doesn't involve prison sentences for the first offence. What Adrian failed to mention in his copy/paste was the minimum sentence is typically zero. As you say the sentences seem wildly different. Now I'm going to stick my neck out (even further!) and suggest that most judges have come through the legal route. So they know the law very well, they are masters of english, logic, argument, reason etc. But do they all possess the same set of morals that sentencing requires? I'll stick my neck out by what I think is a trivial amount, and suggest that all judges have come through the legal route: its a requirement of the job. Or perhaps it was a sardonic comment ?
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Post by bracknellboy on Jun 8, 2022 14:01:10 GMT
But punishable by prison ? This is in a country where I could go and smash a random person the face and almost certainly not face prison as long as the person recovered. How can you compare the two crimes? One of "disrespect" for a system and another of animal violence? that the system has been set up to deal witrh? People go to jail every year for not paying Council tax or TV licence. But yes Magistrates and higher courts are inconsistent. I've read of cases recently where someone Caused brain damage in a fight and gets 3 months,and another person on the same day get 6 months for shoplifting. It also appears that if you are wealthy the penalty is lower or a clever lawyer gets you off on an obscure technicality. What really get me is when you see Smith who has 48 previous driving offences and was banned from driving at the time was banned from driving for 12 months,for pitys sake he'll just ignore it But outcomes are not the only criteria or in some cases perhaps not even the main criteria for sentencing - by which I mean within the bands available for the offence they have actually been charged and found guilty of. What if in the first instance the offence was more one of common assault (I'm not saying it was) but had an outcome that was disproportianate to the actual offence: e.g. someone 'just' pushed someone but the victim then somehow tripped while trying to recover his balance and fell etc. in a way that could not have been reasonably foreseen. Or the shoplifter 'only' nicked a pack of razor blades, but it was the 51st offence, perhaps a couple of prior suspended sentences etc. There are quite a few checks and balances for sentencing: firstly the Sentencing Guidelines, and of course the ability of both the defence and prosecution to appeal the sentence based on it being too harsh/too lenient. No doubt there are discrepencies, but I suspect that the headlines are rather less illuminating than the details, but of course don't make such good headlines.
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michaelc
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Say No To T.D.S.
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Post by michaelc on Jun 8, 2022 14:04:33 GMT
Completely agree. In practice a lot of violent crime doesn't involve prison sentences for the first offence. What Adrian failed to mention in his copy/paste was the minimum sentence is typically zero. As you say the sentences seem wildly different. Now I'm going to stick my neck out (even further!) and suggest that most judges have come through the legal route. So they know the law very well, they are masters of english, logic, argument, reason etc. But do they all possess the same set of morals that sentencing requires? I'll stick my neck out by what I think is a trivial amount, and suggest that all judges have come through the legal route: its a requirement of the job. Or perhaps it was a sardonic comment ? I think what I meant was a separation of running the trial and assisting the jury if there is one in determinging guilt with the actual sentence meted out. The latter in my mind requires someone with a good moral compass whereas all the other tasks obvisouly needing a well trained legal mind. I thought many magistrates were volunteers without any particular legal training.
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Post by bracknellboy on Jun 8, 2022 14:33:06 GMT
michaelc I'll stick my neck out by what I think is a trivial amount, and suggest that all judges have come through the legal route: its a requirement of the job. Or perhaps it was a sardonic comment ? I think what I meant was a separation of running the trial and assisting the jury if there is one in determinging guilt with the actual sentence meted out. The latter in my mind requires someone with a good moral compass whereas all the other tasks obvisouly needing a well trained legal mind. I thought many magistrates were volunteers without any particular legal training.Magistrates are, but judges aren't.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 8, 2022 15:01:46 GMT
thank goodness these things arn't decided by internet users reading media comments....
having had to investigate and decide on a bunch of industrial crimes, including fraud and corruption within a business, I can promise you none of this is easy
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keitha
Member of DD Central
2024, hopefully the year I get out of P2P
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Post by keitha on Jun 8, 2022 18:27:50 GMT
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travolta
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Post by travolta on Jun 8, 2022 20:00:15 GMT
I think what I meant was a separation of running the trial and assisting the jury if there is one in determinging guilt with the actual sentence meted out. The latter in my mind requires someone with a good moral compass whereas all the other tasks obvisouly needing a well trained legal mind. I thought many magistrates were volunteers without any particular legal training.Magistrates are, but judges aren't. I know 2 magistrates and they are complete pratts with the intellect of slugs . They love the life and the dubious kudos . However there is a clerk who attempts to put them straight, now and again .
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keitha
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2024, hopefully the year I get out of P2P
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Post by keitha on Jun 8, 2022 21:12:13 GMT
The same group that like the Kudos of being a Councillor
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Jun 9, 2022 10:14:53 GMT
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registerme
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Post by registerme on Jun 9, 2022 15:01:48 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2022 15:22:01 GMT
Penny Mordaunt
studied drama and read philosphy where she got a 2 from a middle level University
I always get told off by publishing these basic facts but honestly if you pay peanuts you get monkeys
I don't really mind any of the today's parliamentarians but I just wish they were a bit brighter. It is a bit like trying to run a country with half the lights out.
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Post by bracknellboy on Jun 9, 2022 15:36:15 GMT
somebody has hijacked the Domino's account, or has gone feral :-) Brilliant
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Post by bracknellboy on Jun 9, 2022 15:40:19 GMT
Magistrates are, but judges aren't. I know 2 magistrates and they are complete pratts with the intellect of slugs . They love the life and the dubious kudos . However there is a clerk who attempts to put them straight, now and again . I would not contradict that statement. However I do suspect that some magistrates, suitably advised by the clerk, who might do a reasonable job.
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