dave4
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Cynical is a hobby not a lifestyle
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Post by dave4 on Aug 23, 2021 19:13:51 GMT
similar position here, Maybe the Question you need to ask yourself is "if the Covid related issues removed as best you reasonably can from the 28%, what / how has that had an affect?
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Balder
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Post by Balder on Aug 24, 2021 8:03:02 GMT
I got out of AC last year, ISA transfer. Moved it all to an ISA with Fundsmith - up 17% since Jan 21. I have come to realise that the returns (afer losses) in P2P for me aren't worth all the hassle.
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ashtondav
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Post by ashtondav on Aug 25, 2021 17:43:08 GMT
Just wait til the next stockmarket crash. Your 30%+ loss will make you go green for 3% - 4%pa from p2p...
im not saying avoid the market. I’m saying diversification is GOOD. Not saying AC is the p2p option, though.
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trevor
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Post by trevor on Aug 25, 2021 18:13:03 GMT
For me that fact that whenever a loan goes belly up AC ensure that all the cash due to them is taken and us lenders get what’s left is selfish and sticking a middle up at us. I’m now in withdrawal mode, running down by withdrawing all interest and capital as it’s repaid. Unless they are willing to accept some responsibility for their actions then as time goes by I’m slowly but surely out.
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Post by overthehill on Aug 25, 2021 18:36:37 GMT
For me that fact that whenever a loan goes belly up AC ensure that all the cash due to them is taken and us lenders get what’s left is selfish and sticking a middle up at us. I’m now in withdrawal mode, running down by withdrawing all interest and capital as it’s repaid. Unless they are willing to accept some responsibility for their actions then as time goes by I’m slowly but surely out.
I spotted this about 6 months ago and it was an eye opener for me. It's not just the fact they pay themselves first, it's the amount they charge as soon as a loan hits some turbulence. The normal monthly monitoring charge is already high as far as I'm concerned when you compare it with PL and others. There is no alignment with lenders' interests if you think it through.
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alender
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Post by alender on Aug 25, 2021 21:28:34 GMT
Just wait til the next stockmarket crash. Your 30%+ loss will make you go green for 3% - 4%pa from p2p... im not saying avoid the market. I’m saying diversification is GOOD. Not saying AC is the p2p option, though. There is no reason to believe that AC will perform better on the next crisis than the stock market, as I was constantly being told on this forum P2P carries a significant risk. The only reason AC survived like they have is because of vast amounts of government cash.
I went into P2P to diversify but it proved to be a mistake, now diversified in shares in different sectors operating in different countries, this may prove to be a mistake but with western governments printing vast amounts of money and throwing it in all directions along with low rates I am mostly keeping out of cash investments. For me some of the best P2P companies have gone, I was in Landbay, Growth Street until the end and Ratesetter for a time but fortunately got out of one of the worst, Wellesley long before the problems because it did not look right.
No matter what happens you can cash in your shares unlike AC which locked the funds up for a year.
For me the last stock market crash caused by covid left me in a better position than being locked in by AC, by the time AC released my funds my stock market portfolio had recovered from the crash and was showing a profit. The closest company to AC I had was Pollen Street Secured Lending, not only kept up all dividends at a higher rate than AC paid but also gave me a good return when it was taken over.
As I said before take a look at the REITs for a certain amount of safety, they all have significant assets not loans that go bad and have to be chased through the courts only to find that AC get first call on any money returned. Some of the REITs have long term rent contracts with large very stable organisations which are RPI indexed, examples are the large supermarkets healthcare properties where a number are rented to the government, dividends kept up and no sign of forbearance during the crash. Is AC likely to perform better than these in the event of a crises. Also others REITs are at significant discounts to assets but are getting around 90% of rent collections, a lot of these rents are likely to be recovered and with the capital value of the asset unaffected, how does this compare to the number of suspended loans in the AAs, not only is the interest at risk but also the capital.
If you want to hedge against crashes take a look at mining companies especially gold.
The last crash proved how fragile AC is with its commitment to future tranches, the need for forbearance, lock ins, change of rules, reduced rates, PF under pressure.
I am sure there are many AC lenders in the GBBA, GEA failed accounts along with various MLA failed loans who wish their money was on the stock exchange even during a crash.
Where is the future for AC once the government stops support. Its lender base is reduced and it has clearly told large lenders are not welcome here, a number of FOM complaints win or lose will cost AC. It will be lending money in a more risky market than pre-covid, banks can get money very cheap (they create it electronically) so can lend to the less risky borrowers at very low rates. Before covid when all was going well it only made profits for 1 year. However if looking after the directors is important to you they have done a great job.
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bugs4me
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Post by bugs4me on Aug 27, 2021 21:39:35 GMT
The problem with AC although my thoughts are not just confined to them is the gradual erosion of trust. Whilst I'm out of AC reading the posts there is increasing disenchantment with the way the platform operates and it has gone from a company that embraced transparency to one which is becoming more opaque as each day passes.
When I first got involved with P2P many moons ago, the lender was very high on the priority list of the platforms. But as those platforms grew the lender was nothing more than an inconvenient necessity. Then many platforms attracted institutional funding and I'm not that stupid to believe they received the same treatment as us 'ordinary folk'. One platform I remember got an institutional investment boost and the loan opportunities for retail lenders dried up for more than a couple of months - not even a few crumbs were offered. When loans returned to some sort of normality there was anything but cream on offer - the loans were ultra high risk in my book and even at 12% were nothing more than gambling. This point was mentioned a few years ago by MRC who had carried out some extensive background research on the individuals running the platforms. As an aside, I do hope MRC is okay as it's been a while since he posted on the forum.
Back to AC and when they can be bothered to respond to any form of constructive criticism it is often in a puke inducing patronising fashion. Nonetheless, when a loan goes belly up, it's always the lenders that take the pain with AC taking monthly monitoring fees plus more so there is every incentive for them to extend the suffering for as long as possible - just a personal observation.
New P2P platforms offer the earth, moon and stars to attract lenders and yes, in the early days they are very active in their communications. But given time, provided they survive, they too go into hibernation mode plus a quick check at Companies House and their string of other directorships makes one wonder just how serious they are. Or are they just chancers to see if their latest and greatest platform will achieve take off.
There exists several serious problems with many P2P platforms ranging from a lack of disclosure, expecting lenders to do their own DD, changing the T's and C's and backdating them usually for their own financial benefit, continual can kicking decisions, platforms with a direct but usually indirect association with the borrower - in fact the list is endless. Please don't ask me to name those associaions as a public forum is not the place to disclose them but the list is undesirable to say the least.
The current state of P2P platforms in administration proves that the run-off plans approved by the FCA were nothing more than a sham. Administrators in my view will always look after themselves first so again, lenders are treated with utter contempt.
Calling the market - I have no idea any more whether P2P is worth the time and effort required. It used to be good but those days seem to have ebbed away back in the 2017's. S&S has a lot going for it over the longer term but knowing when to cash out at the top of the market is anyone's guess at the moment. So sometimes I think my hard earned cash is better simply under the mattress even though it's true worth is being eaten away by inflation.
Just my ramblings.
Edit - it's a funny old world that the FCA have just come out the the statement - “We [the FCA] have been very clear that P2P loans are a higher risk form of investment, rather than, say, a savings product.” So after being 'overall charge' and supposedly being responsible for protecting consumers, they have just managed to decide this whilst in the meantime allowing platforms to blazon their FCA authorisation at every available opportunity.
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trium
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Post by trium on Sept 22, 2021 15:46:13 GMT
Latest vote has rather annoyed me. Borrower clearly in difficulty, interest rate to be upped and a 1% arrangement fee to be charged (= £3225.87). Lenders get an extra 0.5% (6.7% uplift) AC also get 0.5% (35.7% uplift). Voting against this shameful deal would be detrimental to the borrower, but I struggle to give it my approval.
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ton27
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Post by ton27 on Sept 22, 2021 17:03:52 GMT
This is not a one-off (in fact two of the current votes have similar terms) and truly demonstrates AC with their "nose in the trough". Hopefully for lenders it will prevent the platform going bust - we know how bad that is but will the charges mean some borrowers do not survive, thus affecting lenders adversely whilst AC are sitting pretty. As an investor,I should be content with AC "over-charging(?) borrowers but it does not feel right.
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bugs4me
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Post by bugs4me on Sept 22, 2021 21:05:08 GMT
Latest vote has rather annoyed me. Borrower clearly in difficulty, interest rate to be upped and a 1% arrangement fee to be charged (= £3225.87). Lenders get an extra 0.5% (6.7% uplift) AC also get 0.5% (35.7% uplift). Voting against this shameful deal would be detrimental to the borrower, but I struggle to give it my approval. This is an absolute disgrace. AC have totally lost the plot and even though it's lenders that take the 'gamble', they still want a share for what exactly.
It's more than just noses in the trough, it's underhand dealing at every opportunity. I cannot believe anyone signed up to invest funds in AC loans to be treated this way - just an opinion but as was posted a while back, the owners/directors/majority shareholders/etc have largely lost interest and moved on to other personal money making schemes - no doubt on the back of other folks hard earned cash!
Just maybe although pure speculation on my part, they can see a dwindling number of private investors so make hay whilst the opportunity is still there. So possibly they haven't lost the plot and can see the writing on the wall. Bet my bottom dollar that any institutional investor is not being treated the same.
Irrespective, it's shameful behaviour in my book but bet AC don't give a ....
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deltron
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Post by deltron on Sept 22, 2021 22:19:10 GMT
I got out of AC last year, ISA transfer. Moved it all to an ISA with Fundsmith - up 17% since Jan 21. I have come to realise that the returns (afer losses) in P2P for me aren't worth all the hassle. My Fundsmith account is down 1.2% after a month since I decided to dip my toe into equities for the first time in 8 years (coincidentally lost 1% immediately then too and scarpered). Those historical numbers looked FANTASTIC, but, everybody repeat after me, "past performance is not a guarantee of future returns". I'm just hoping that the brains behind Fundsmith can dig me out of a hole rather than bury me in it.
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TitoPuente
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Post by TitoPuente on Sept 23, 2021 7:39:13 GMT
- just an opinion but as was posted a while back, the owners/directors/majority shareholders/etc have largely lost interest and moved on to other personal money making schemes -
What's the source of the claim if I may ask?
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Balder
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Post by Balder on Sept 23, 2021 8:28:34 GMT
I got out of AC last year, ISA transfer. Moved it all to an ISA with Fundsmith - up 17% since Jan 21. I have come to realise that the returns (afer losses) in P2P for me aren't worth all the hassle. My Fundsmith account is down 1.2% after a month since I decided to dip my toe into equities for the first time in 8 years (coincidentally lost 1% immediately then too and scarpered). Those historical numbers looked FANTASTIC, but, everybody repeat after me, "past performance is not a guarantee of future returns". I'm just hoping that the brains behind Fundsmith can dig me out of a hole rather than bury me in it. It does bounce around a bit! But on the year since Jan is still up over 16%.
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bugs4me
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Post by bugs4me on Sept 23, 2021 8:44:23 GMT
- just an opinion but as was posted a while back, the owners/directors/majority shareholders/etc have largely lost interest and moved on to other personal money making schemes -
What's the source of the claim if I may ask? It was posted by a fellow forum member regarding AE a few months ago. It was just an opinion/observation and IIRC in response to a lack of meaningful responses to valid questions re AC loans.
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Post by overthehill on Sept 23, 2021 9:00:02 GMT
I don't see anything appealing in isolation or relatively compared to other platforms. I don't see any evidence or actions that suggest they care.
Nearly 5 years with AC.
My accrued interest in the MLA and closed accounts is now 10% of my total historic interest paid. My defaulted/late capital trapped in the MLA and closed accounts (with no provision funds apparently) is now 36% of my total historic interest paid.
I don't think I've had any capital losses yet but I don't know how to check that, don't see that stat in my account.
Where does it end and what is my final return going to be? Worth comtemplating before putting new money in, I won't be doing that.
The worst part by far is the lack of DD incentive and the resulting misalignment with investors interests regarding additional charges for non-performing loans. If it isn't greed and they need to do this for survival then I want out either way.
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