keitha
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Post by keitha on Jul 25, 2021 20:38:29 GMT
It’s not a race to the bottom. Personally I don’t think being on 80% furlough to sit at home for 18 months when during a period of reduced living costs should be seen as comparable to working at the front line for 18 months though. Too damn true I personally know 2 people who have made a fortune on 80% from Government, had it made up by the boss, and both of them have taken second jobs whilst on furlough. In 1 case he has decided that he won't be going back to his previous employer, but isn't going to tell him until called back in to work. personally I find that sort of behaviour disgusting
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Post by mfaxford on Jul 26, 2021 9:14:49 GMT
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keitha
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Post by keitha on Jul 26, 2021 11:42:26 GMT
Talking to a friend yesterday, her sister is a medical secretary in a hospital, primary role is organising appointments for specialists etc, she has freely admitted that for nearly 18 months she has had nothing to do as all routine stuff cancelled, there are doubtless other examples. Do these people deserve the same pay rise as those actually on the front line in hospitals.
I'd go further,I'd remove the need for a degree for nursing, I know a lot of nurses many of whom are the older generation, they would not have gone into nursing had a degree been required, but they are often, better more empathetic, caring and full of common sense. in my experience too many of the degree generation are only interested in climbing the ladder to management, I know of one who applied for a sisters role 6 weeks after qualifying and was indignant when she didn't get it. IMHO there is no substitute for experience
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hazellend
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Post by hazellend on Jul 26, 2021 14:24:51 GMT
Talking to a friend yesterday, her sister is a medical secretary in a hospital, primary role is organising appointments for specialists etc, she has freely admitted that for nearly 18 months she has had nothing to do as all routine stuff cancelled, there are doubtless other examples. Do these people deserve the same pay rise as those actually on the front line in hospitals. I'd go further,I'd remove the need for a degree for nursing, I know a lot of nurses many of whom are the older generation, they would not have gone into nursing had a degree been required, but they are often, better more empathetic, caring and full of common sense. in my experience too many of the degree generation are only interested in climbing the ladder to management, I know of one who applied for a sisters role 6 weeks after qualifying and was indignant when she didn't get it. IMHO there is no substitute for experience Your friend is either lying or very bad at her job. Waiting lists to see me for a new routine appointment are currently over 1 year and clinics are fully booked. Also, I’m not sure what qualification you hold that gives you knowledge of what is required to be a good nurse?
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keitha
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Post by keitha on Jul 26, 2021 23:55:45 GMT
Talking to a friend yesterday, her sister is a medical secretary in a hospital, primary role is organising appointments for specialists etc, she has freely admitted that for nearly 18 months she has had nothing to do as all routine stuff cancelled, there are doubtless other examples. Do these people deserve the same pay rise as those actually on the front line in hospitals. I'd go further,I'd remove the need for a degree for nursing, I know a lot of nurses many of whom are the older generation, they would not have gone into nursing had a degree been required, but they are often, better more empathetic, caring and full of common sense. in my experience too many of the degree generation are only interested in climbing the ladder to management, I know of one who applied for a sisters role 6 weeks after qualifying and was indignant when she didn't get it. IMHO there is no substitute for experience Your friend is either lying or very bad at her job. Waiting lists to see me for a new routine appointment are currently over 1 year and clinics are fully booked. Also, I’m not sure what qualification you hold that gives you knowledge of what is required to be a good nurse? Here In Wales many clinics are still cancelled so the medical secretaries have little to do as they are not organising appointments typing (OK more likely mail merge ) letters to patients re results etc. My Qualification, I'm a human and a patient occasionally, I'd much rather be treated by the old style nurse who learned on the job than the modern nurses some of whom have very little experience even after 3-4 years at university. One University is offering a 2 year degree in Nursing with half the time on practical experience, compare that to the old style training of 3-4 years practical to become a SRN, and I know which I'd prefer.
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Jul 27, 2021 7:53:11 GMT
Also, I’m not sure what qualification you hold that gives you knowledge of what is required to be a good nurse? My Qualification, I'm a human and a patient occasionally Ah, honours from the university of life... What you forget is that the "old-style" nurse was trained and qualified for a different job. As medicine and medtech have progressed, a lot of the everyday stuff that doctors did has cascaded down to nurses, while a lot of the everyday stuff that nurses did has cascaded down to nursing assistants. Also - back in the day, very few people progressed to higher education. Now, many do - so if you want somebody in the higher 50% of the education/intelligence/skill continuum, you want somebody with a degree. And for a vocational job, that wants to be a vocational degree. You may bemoan the expansion of higher education (let me guess: "never did me any harm"...?), but it is a simple fact of life.
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keitha
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Post by keitha on Aug 7, 2021 13:20:52 GMT
I suppose it goes back to the argument "its got easier"
This year it is expected in most subjects 45% of A level students will get an A grade.
in the 70's 15% went to university now it is 50%.
To be honest i'm surprised it was 15%
As I remember about 25% went to the grammar the rest to Secondary Modern or the local Comp.
of the 25% I think 50% left at 16 after GCEs ( so leaving 12.5% )
of the remaining few I think less than 50% went to University so lets say 6%. I can only think of one of my friends who didn't go to the Grammar but managed to get to university.
From people I met over my first few years of my working life I think this was common in Northern Counties, the only way the nation could have achieved 15% would be to have a much higher percentage in the south and maybe the likes of Manchester.
Talking to friends in the Welsh Valleys it is still quite rare for people to progress to university so perhaps there is still a major divide to the richer southern counties
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firedog
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Post by firedog on Aug 7, 2021 14:48:06 GMT
Scottish NHS staff pay at least 1% more in income tax Just for clarity, those at the lower end of the scale (earning under £27k a year), pay less tax in Scotland.
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keitha
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Post by keitha on Aug 8, 2021 12:11:05 GMT
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Mike
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Post by Mike on Aug 8, 2021 15:49:09 GMT
Don't forget that nurses (or other NHS staff) working antisocial hours (nights/weekends) or more than the usual 37.5h/week are subject to significant pay enhancements
e.g my wife a junior doctor FTE salary ~70k (strangely would be less if in London) but the "basic" pay for her band is significantly less. It's the basic pay that is often shouted around as if that's what they actually get - it almost never is.
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keitha
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Post by keitha on Aug 8, 2021 15:52:41 GMT
in the Higher Nursing bands no Overtime etc is paid.
Which is why some of them won't do it but then do "bank" work
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hazellend
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Post by hazellend on Aug 8, 2021 16:08:27 GMT
Don't forget that nurses (or other NHS staff) working antisocial hours (nights/weekends) or more than the usual 37.5h/week are subject to significant pay enhancements e.g my wife a junior doctor FTE salary ~70k (strangely would be less if in London) but the "basic" pay for her band is significantly less. It's the basic pay that is often shouted around as if that's what they actually get - it almost never is. Err, well it’s the basic pay that matters. The enhancements are for doing longer and more antisocial hours above basic hours. Your wife’s salary is at the high end for doctors in training. Either she is near consultant level or a very demanding rota. Doctors pay should be around 50% higher than they are.
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Mike
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Post by Mike on Aug 8, 2021 16:44:20 GMT
Don't forget that nurses (or other NHS staff) working antisocial hours (nights/weekends) or more than the usual 37.5h/week are subject to significant pay enhancements e.g my wife a junior doctor FTE salary ~70k (strangely would be less if in London) but the "basic" pay for her band is significantly less. It's the basic pay that is often shouted around as if that's what they actually get - it almost never is. Err, well it’s the basic pay that matters. The enhancements are for doing longer and more antisocial hours above basic hours. Your wife’s salary is at the high end for doctors in training. Either she is near consultant level or a very demanding rota. Doctors pay should be around 50% higher than they are. There are other schemes too, such as Targeted Enhanced Recruitment Scheme (7k/year here in Cumbria, regardless of PT/FT) - and the less than full time allowance which interestingly is a 1k/year bonus they pay you just to go part time
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2021 8:50:31 GMT
+50% .... why not +51% just plucking numbers out of the air are like financial services saying "1%" as if 1.00% had some mystical meaning.
I'm not saying that the NHS should not pay its staff more but before Covid I used to visit a leading eye hospital and the special clinic (not for me) had piles of patient's notes on every hard service because they could not get themselves organised. Post-ish Covid I can now order prescriptions more easily than order goods on Amazon. When the NHS starts accelerating its efficiency more then pay them lots more.
Yes our country is aging but come on guys now that we are getting rid of fax machines in the NHS what else can we update?
For example I recently had a simple heart beat scan, they carefully printed off the output and put it in an envelope (so I could not read it?) and asked me to take it to the GP a walk of about 1km into town. I don't mind, but all he was going to do was to scan it to put it in my online notes (that I have access to). Since the output of the unit was already data how hard is it to wire the machine into the internet and save on paper. Still I should be glad they didn't type a letter and an envelope and put a stamp on it.
My other shock was I have recently helped to spread wild flowers into an NHS garden. When we approached them we assumed we would buy seed and scatter in autumn as per the cheapest route. Oh no, the NHS has such a big budget for gardens that they bought massive amounts of plug plants and planted them in spring to be watered through the summer. Clearly £500-£1000 does not even get to some sort of management control. Look lovely though.
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Post by bracknellboy on Aug 9, 2021 10:25:30 GMT
Don't forget that nurses (or other NHS staff) working antisocial hours (nights/weekends) or more than the usual 37.5h/week are subject to significant pay enhancements e.g my wife a junior doctor FTE salary ~70k (strangely would be less if in London) but the "basic" pay for her band is significantly less. It's the basic pay that is often shouted around as if that's what they actually get - it almost never is. Err, well it’s the basic pay that matters. The enhancements are for doing longer and more antisocial hours above basic hours.Not commenting on NHS pay structures specifically as I have very limited knowledge of them. But as a general point, I would disagree with that statement. There are many jobs which have anti-social hours, and people often quote basic pay numbers and then talk about how that is incompatible with the anti-social hours / shift working etc. If it is fundamental to the job that there are anti-social hours / shift work / bank holiday working, then the only salary numbers that really matter for comparison purposes should be those that incorporate what would be expected normal shift patterns for the job. Which inevitably in jobs like policing/health care will entail shift work / anti-social hours. The other consideration is how generous (or not) are the payments for abnormal (outside of reasonably to be expected for that job) work patterns. on what basis ? What are the grounds for saying that ? Perhaps they should be ? perhaps they should be paid 50% less ? Or 150% more ? Or maybe they should be paid the same but required to do a bit less hours ? Or maybe the issues around tax/tax allowances with Defined Benefit pension schemes should be resolved somehow, to encourage more qualified people to stay in the job for longer ? Comparing jobs and salaries is a minefield and often hugely subjective. Pay is only one part of any benefit/reward equation. More subjective indicators would be: a) Are there significant recruitment issues, which are NOT being caused by bottlenecks in training / qualification rather than willing candidates which pay increases would ameliorate. b) what does the overall renumeration & benefits package compare with same roles in other similar countries. Otherwise we're just plucking numbers out of the air.
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