keitha
Member of DD Central
2024, hopefully the year I get out of P2P
Posts: 3,865
Likes: 2,305
|
Post by keitha on Aug 17, 2021 12:20:47 GMT
One has to laugh
Angela Rayner in her righteous indignation tweeted "what sort of Government goes into a country without a plan to withdraw" ( or words to that effect. Effectively implying it was the fault of Boris and the Tories
the tweet has now vanished after a whole bunch of people pointed out it was Labour under Blair that went in so it was presumably them that should have planned
|
|
aj
Member of DD Central
Posts: 343
Likes: 451
|
Post by aj on Aug 17, 2021 12:38:44 GMT
Too easy for her to forget that Keith fella is the Labour leader now, not Corbyn who was after a war crimes investigation into Blair.
Her point remains, our countries regular historical meddling in the middle east has been half baked at best...
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 17, 2021 14:04:19 GMT
I remember the expressions "ethical foreign policy" and "dodgy dossier".
Going to war requires clarity and focus, not random management based on changing governments.
|
|
agent69
Member of DD Central
Posts: 5,587
Likes: 4,182
|
Post by agent69 on Aug 17, 2021 17:28:54 GMT
Does anyone know how many Afghan soldiers have been killed in the last 10 days trying to defend their country from the Taliban?
|
|
michaelc
Member of DD Central
Posts: 4,844
Likes: 2,758
|
Post by michaelc on Aug 17, 2021 19:49:57 GMT
Does anyone know how many Afghan soldiers have been killed in the last 10 days trying to defend their country from the Taliban?The AFA are happy to receive billions of dollars and training from the Americans but when push comes to shove, they don't want to fight to the death against people from their own country. How utterly despicable of them.
|
|
agent69
Member of DD Central
Posts: 5,587
Likes: 4,182
|
Post by agent69 on Aug 17, 2021 19:55:17 GMT
Does anyone know how many Afghan soldiers have been killed in the last 10 days trying to defend their country from the Taliban? The AFA are happy to receive billions of dollars and training from the Americans but when push comes to shove, they don't want to fight to the death against people from their own country. How utterly despicable of them. I thought that's what being in the armed forces was all about.
|
|
michaelc
Member of DD Central
Posts: 4,844
Likes: 2,758
|
Post by michaelc on Aug 17, 2021 20:04:58 GMT
The AFA are happy to receive billions of dollars and training from the Americans but when push comes to shove, they don't want to fight to the death against people from their own country. How utterly despicable of them. I thought that's what being in the armed forces was all about. To defend your country yes. Not to fight your fellow countrymen at the behest of a foreign power.
|
|
agent69
Member of DD Central
Posts: 5,587
Likes: 4,182
|
Post by agent69 on Aug 17, 2021 20:31:43 GMT
I thought that's what being in the armed forces was all about. To defend your country yes. Not to fight your fellow countrymen at the behest of a foreign power. But they were happy for other people to fight their fellow countrymen for them?
Civil war happens all the time (not certain that Taliban terrorists could reasonably be classed as fellow countrymen), and if the Afghan people had an issue with foreign involvement it's a shame they didn't say so 20 years ago before 450 british citizens were killed
|
|
michaelc
Member of DD Central
Posts: 4,844
Likes: 2,758
|
Post by michaelc on Aug 17, 2021 21:25:33 GMT
To defend your country yes. Not to fight your fellow countrymen at the behest of a foreign power. But they were happy for other people to fight their fellow countrymen for them?
Civil war happens all the time (not certain that Taliban terrorists could reasonably be classed as fellow countrymen), and if the Afghan people had an issue with foreign involvement it's a shame they didn't say so 20 years ago before 450 british citizens were killed Utterly terrifying that we put 450 british soldiers to death in that country and what the heck for? What the heck has it got to do with us. The taliban are not "terrorists" unless you read the Express. They are about 100,000 heavily armed young men who come from a conservative community representing a significant proportion of that countries views. Views that we largely find difficult to stomach but views that are nontheles very common there.But again, what has any of that got to do with us ? We lost 450 young men of our own because Afghanistan allowed some citizens of saudi arabia to plot to destroy the twin towers in america? 450 young men to die for that? Not to mention an entire country screwed over. P.S. Who do you think the majahadeen were that were fighting against the USSR and being given weapons and traning by the US in the 1980s? Yes the same lot that the non-thinking refer to as "terrorists".
|
|
Greenwood2
Member of DD Central
Posts: 4,241
Likes: 2,686
|
Post by Greenwood2 on Aug 18, 2021 7:12:15 GMT
The trouble is the Taliban were never defeated, they just retired to the pretty impregnable mountains or melted back into the community, they continued to have support all over the Country and pretty much ruled many rural areas. It was the same problem for the Russians and the French before us (whatever the resistance was called at the time). And when the foreigners decide to leave the Taliban emerges and takes control, the alternative would be a civil war and it seems the Afghan army had no stomach for that, understandably in many ways. I heard somewhere the army hadn't actually been paid for some time (not sure if it's true) which may not have helped.
|
|
registerme
Member of DD Central
Posts: 6,184
Likes: 5,991
|
Post by registerme on Aug 18, 2021 9:33:36 GMT
It's difficult to find good data, but I think it's inaccurate to say that Afghan security forces "didn't want to fight". This source claims that 66,000 Afghan military and police died in the twenty years the Coalition occupied (because that's essentially what we did) Afghanistan. Criticise a lack of institutions, corruption, poor leadership etc as much as you like but Afghans shed plenty of blood alongside Coalition forces. I can well understand why friends and families who lost loved ones, or personnel who returned physically or mentally damaged, are feeling extremely bitter and angry right now .
|
|
ilmoro
Member of DD Central
'Wondering which of the bu***rs to blame, and watching for pigs on the wing.' - Pink Floyd
Posts: 10,840
Likes: 11,068
|
Post by ilmoro on Aug 18, 2021 9:42:32 GMT
|
|
agent69
Member of DD Central
Posts: 5,587
Likes: 4,182
|
Post by agent69 on Aug 18, 2021 10:18:25 GMT
But they were happy for other people to fight their fellow countrymen for them?
Civil war happens all the time (not certain that Taliban terrorists could reasonably be classed as fellow countrymen), and if the Afghan people had an issue with foreign involvement it's a shame they didn't say so 20 years ago before 450 british citizens were killed Utterly terrifying that we put 450 british soldiers to death in that country and what the heck for? What the heck has it got to do with us. The taliban are not "terrorists" unless you read the Express. They are about 100,000 heavily armed young men who come from a conservative community representing a significant proportion of that countries views. Views that we largely find difficult to stomach but views that are nontheles very common there.But again, what has any of that got to do with us ? We lost 450 young men of our own because Afghanistan allowed some citizens of saudi arabia to plot to destroy the twin towers in america? 450 young men to die for that? Not to mention an entire country screwed over. P.S. Who do you think the majahadeen were that were fighting against the USSR and being given weapons and traning by the US in the 1980s? Yes the same lot that the non-thinking refer to as "terrorists". Terrorist - a person who uses unlawful violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims.
I would have thought that just about sums up the average Taliiban fighter
|
|
|
Post by bernythedolt on Aug 18, 2021 10:44:43 GMT
Utterly terrifying that we put 450 british soldiers to death in that country and what the heck for? What the heck has it got to do with us. The taliban are not "terrorists" unless you read the Express. They are about 100,000 heavily armed young men who come from a conservative community representing a significant proportion of that countries views. Views that we largely find difficult to stomach but views that are nontheles very common there.But again, what has any of that got to do with us ? We lost 450 young men of our own because Afghanistan allowed some citizens of saudi arabia to plot to destroy the twin towers in america? 450 young men to die for that? Not to mention an entire country screwed over. P.S. Who do you think the majahadeen were that were fighting against the USSR and being given weapons and traning by the US in the 1980s? Yes the same lot that the non-thinking refer to as "terrorists". Terrorist - a person who uses unlawful violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims.
I would have thought that just about sums up the average Taliiban fighter
The keyword there is "unlawful". They operate under Sharia law, which condones many activities we would find intolerable, abhorrent and totally against the law we abide by in the west. So they would be terrorists over here, by our secular definition, but perhaps not over there, under the medieval creed they seem to prefer.
|
|
Greenwood2
Member of DD Central
Posts: 4,241
Likes: 2,686
|
Post by Greenwood2 on Aug 18, 2021 11:13:23 GMT
Terrorist - a person who uses unlawful violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims.
I would have thought that just about sums up the average Taliiban fighter
The keyword there is "unlawful". They operate under Sharia law, which condones many activities we would find intolerable, abhorrent and totally against the law we abide by in the west. So they would be terrorists over here, by our secular definition, but perhaps not over there, under the medieval creed they seem to prefer. They would probably consider themselves freedom fighters, with a lot of support amongst the civilian population. It just depends where you sit, one man's terrorist is another man's resistance.
|
|