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Post by valueinvestor123 on Jan 3, 2015 14:41:31 GMT
Out of Assetz, Thincats, Ratesetter and Funding Circle, which is the cheapest/quickest p2p provider to exit should one need cash? It looks like ratesetter might be most expensive and FC might be cheapest on my preliminary examination.
thanks, vi123
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Post by lynnanthony on Jan 3, 2015 15:01:05 GMT
Isn't Assetz free to exit? Unlike FC? (Subject of course to there being buyers for your loan parts ..... )
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Post by tybalt on Jan 3, 2015 15:04:47 GMT
Thin Cats £25 per loan minimum, or 3% of value outstanding subject to a maximum of £75 a loan, listing fee. For small say under £3,000 capital you could list at fixed price of par and have the loan parts sold as you loose the accrued interest. For a fire sale of everything you might be able to negotiate a lower overall rate. For larger packages you might be able to get on free relist per loan. Subject to not wanting a premium about 75% of loans seem to sell each month. Alternatively try for a premium and see if they sell. £1,000 minimum per sale except for the rump of the loan means it is not a liquid as some P2B exchanges.
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Post by bracknellboy on Jan 3, 2015 15:07:00 GMT
As always, I'm afraid to say "that depends" :-)
I'm not overly familiar with RSs offerring for exit, but from what I recall from what others have said, it is likely to be the close to quickest and potentially the only one which you can virtually guarantee to exit from. But the penalties in terms of lost interest can be high (but then again, don't lock up into a 5 year term loan if that isn't appropriate for your needs).
On one measure, AC is the cheapest because of no fees. On the other hand, FC has low fees (.25%) and allows markups. In both cases of course you are dependent on matching buyers which in turn will depend on mix of current market liquidity and which loans you are holding. With FC there is the ability to sell at a premium, so depending on all those variables plus rates on your portfolio, it is quite conceivable/probable that you could exit at a profit or no loss (perhaps via a mix of markup/discount and par selling across your portfolio as required to balance speed of selling against cost), and during period of favourable liquidity do so relatively quickly (bar those loans which you are locked into due to downgrading).
On TC fees on selling are very high (2.5%), in my view largely because of the level of manual effort required by the platform. Like FC, markups/discounts are possible. But I think you would be highly unlikely to exit quickly without incurring some considerable cost via combinaton of fees/discounts/lost accrued interest.
Edit Post crossed with Tybalt: Assume that statement on TC fees is more accurate than mine, though I was pretty sure it was 2.5% / £25 minimum not 3%.
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Post by tybalt on Jan 3, 2015 15:16:42 GMT
Sorry you are right it is 2.5% of loan value subject to a minimum of £25 and a maximum of £75.
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Post by GSV3MIaC on Jan 4, 2015 11:30:44 GMT
The OP needs to specify what contracts, really. I mean exit from a 1 month RS contract is not really an issue .. with FC you can be in for anything between 6 months and 5 years (so far!) .. you can liquidate many FC holdings at par, or a profit, as someone said, but if you are heavily into the property loans you'll need to give away at least 1% (right now), maybe more, for a fast exit .. fast meaning <1 week, probably. And if your FC loans are RBR (Risk Band Removed) you are stuck (4907 anyone!) even if they are paying perfectly (which that one currently isn't)... not an issue with RS. Why no-one (i.e. the OP) mention ZOPA - their fees for Rapid Return are not too bad. Of course Zopa also have RBR type load parts which they won't let you RR .. only RS guarantees (more or less) your money back, less a hefty penalty if it was a long term loan.
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Post by batchoy on Jan 4, 2015 12:09:51 GMT
It is not just the cost of exiting, AC may be free to exit but there are other issues involved, I am in the process of exiting AC however I have significant amounts tied up in loans which cannot be traded either due to borrower repayment issues or AC administrative issues in my MLIA, and my GEIA has not sold as single piece of shrapnel in three weeks.
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pikestaff
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Post by pikestaff on Jan 5, 2015 23:23:29 GMT
Sorry you are right it is 2.5% of loan value subject to a minimum of £25 and a maximum of £75. TC SM fees are actually 1% of loan value subject to a min £25 and max £75.
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Post by Ton ⓉⓞⓃ on Jan 6, 2015 0:32:30 GMT
The OP needs to specify what contracts, really. I mean exit from a 1 month RS contract is not really an issue .. with FC you can be in for anything between 6 months and 5 years (so far!) .. you can liquidate many FC holdings at par, or a profit, as someone said, but if you are heavily into the property loans you'll need to give away at least 1% (right now), maybe more, for a fast exit .. fast meaning <1 week, probably. And if your FC loans are RBR (Risk Band Removed) you are stuck (4907 anyone!) even if they are paying perfectly (which that one currently isn't)... not an issue with RS. Why no-one (i.e. the OP) mention ZOPA - their fees for Rapid Return are not too bad. Of course Zopa also have RBR type load parts which they won't let you RR .. only RS guarantees (more or less) your money back, less a hefty penalty if it was a long term loan. I just highlighted a line in your post just to say that Z has changed the rules on that so that it's a little more relaxed So I think that means that less than 10% of my mature loan book would NOT be capable of being put up for sale. For new customers of Z it might be just 1 or 2% of their book being unsaleable and the little bit that isn't you have to wait for the value of four months missed payments for the loan to be fully repaid by SG (Safeguard). AIUI
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mikes1531
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Post by mikes1531 on Jan 6, 2015 2:35:44 GMT
... Z has changed the rules on that so that it's a little more relaxed So I think that means that less than 10% of my mature loan book would NOT be capable of being put up for sale. For new customers of Z it might be just 1 or 2% of their book being unsaleable and the little bit that isn't you have to wait for the value of four months missed payments for the loan to be fully repaid by SG (Safeguard). AIUI That's good news. I take it to mean that loans made under SG that have missed payments and then caught up are now RR-able. So the only SG loans that aren't RR-able are those with arrears. If the arrears grow to four months' worth, then SG would pay out. All that would leave then would be loans where a borrower missed a payment or two and then went back to paying without making up the missed payments. Based on past experience, this isn't too uncommon.
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Post by Ton ⓉⓞⓃ on Jan 6, 2015 9:28:12 GMT
... Z has changed the rules on that so that it's a little more relaxed So I think that means that less than 10% of my mature loan book would NOT be capable of being put up for sale. For new customers of Z it might be just 1 or 2% of their book being unsaleable and the little bit that isn't you have to wait for the value of four months missed payments for the loan to be fully repaid by SG (Safeguard). AIUI That's good news. I take it to mean that loans made under SG that have missed payments and then caught up are now RR-able. So the only SG loans that aren't RR-able are those with arrears. If the arrears grow to four months' worth, then SG would pay out. All that would leave then would be loans where a borrower missed a payment or two and then went back to paying without making up the missed payments. Based on past experience, this isn't too uncommon. That's just about how I see it too. I might just be lucky but if I look at just my new loans (Safeguarded ones) I've just 1 in Arrangement & 4 in collections These are the only ones at the moment that I can't sell out of 1536 live loans (£10 & £20 chucks). But I should say many of these 1536 loans are around a year old, so my loan book might not be as mature as I said in my previous post.
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Post by jackpease on Jan 6, 2015 12:54:22 GMT
Cheapest to exit? I got the willies with Savingstream and sold a decent four figure sum in days at no cost and the money in the bank quickly. Can't beat an SS exit...
I am keen to see how the platform deals with the inevitable bridging loan defaults before i plough money back in
Jack P
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Post by GSV3MIaC on Jan 6, 2015 15:51:16 GMT
Yes, thanks for the RR update, which I had missed. I guess ZOPA listened to me, however I am still out of there. 8>.
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mikes1531
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Post by mikes1531 on Jan 7, 2015 3:55:40 GMT
... however I am still out of there. 8>. Me too. I was very close to dipping a toe back in -- I had money on offer but it hadn't reached the front of the queue yet -- then Zopa cancelled their Rate Promise and I withdrew all the money I had on offer.
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james
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Post by james on Jan 9, 2015 20:36:43 GMT
Watch out when it comes to fees that are a percentage of capital. Consider what happens to mature loans where most of the repayments are capital. Even a small fee can exceed the value of remaining interest payments and require a capital loss to sell.
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