dave4
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Cynical is a hobby not a lifestyle
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Post by dave4 on Sept 10, 2021 14:46:13 GMT
Launch date 13th
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tony9239
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Post by tony9239 on Sept 10, 2021 15:24:10 GMT
Be interesting to see how this one fares after Tuesday's bombshell announcement.
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GreenZero
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The early bird may get the worm, but it's the second mouse who gets the cheese
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Post by GreenZero on Sept 10, 2021 15:53:05 GMT
I suspect this will fill without the need for underwritters.
However, following this weeks announcement, where I feel a number of loans were rushed out of the door knowing something was on the horizon, non more so than 165, I'll be stepping aside on investing any more or reinvesting whilst I spectate how it is handled and pans out.
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Post by df on Sept 10, 2021 17:50:20 GMT
I suspect this will fill without the need for underwritters. However, following this weeks announcement, where I feel a number of loans were rushed out of the door knowing something was on the horizon, non more so than 165, I'll be stepping aside on investing any more or reinvesting whilst I spectate how it is handled and pans out. I think many ABL investors will be very cautious because of 165. Releasing 165 without a vital piece of information is going to affect the trust in ABL. Either ABL didn't know or knew it and yet introduced another tranche - both sound bad. 167 sounds ok to me from description. New borrower linked to the existing borrower, 15% amortising, business - retail, security - clothes&shoes+PG..... risk/return ratio is reasonable (imo). I've got some returns I was going to withdraw on Monday. I will reinvest it into 167, but no new deposits until we get an explanation for 165.
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Post by Badly Drawn Stickman on Sept 11, 2021 7:17:32 GMT
I will be 'taking the elbow' as a symbol of solidarity with the money I would have used to invest being incarcerated by current events.
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blender
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Post by blender on Sept 11, 2021 8:00:19 GMT
Liquidity on the platform is not quite what it was.
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blueblazer
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Post by blueblazer on Sept 13, 2021 9:00:45 GMT
Unfortunate time to launch a new loan.
No matter how good (or bad) the proposal is, recent events will overshadow it big time.
Just calculated that I have 10 missing payments from the last couple of weeks that would normally have been paid without any issue.
These would have been reinvested in this new loan but can't be done now.
There must be a good few people in the same situation.
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p2pfan
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Full-Time Investor
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Post by p2pfan on Sept 13, 2021 10:46:26 GMT
Agree with your comment blueblazer. I would normally have dived into this loan, with my trust and faith in ABL, but that has been irredeemably shattered now. I am extremely suspicious of any loans launching on this platform now, and how situations are spun in a way that Peter Mandelson would be proud of. Having studied the Borrowing Proposal for this loan, it seems like yet another Gr**ns*** spin scenario. In terms of the security for the loan, there's all kinds of smoke and mirrors about corporate debentures, which we all know are likely to be beyond worthless if/when this borrower goes into Administration. The asset value is stock of £826k and "no LTV has been provided". How marvellous. Is the £826k likely to retail or wholesale value? I would never profess to be an expert on high-end shoes, but I have suffered a lot of Administrations of companies that borrowed money from me. I am guestimating that if one tries to sell £826k retail value of posh shoes wholesale, they won't sell for more than, say, £400k? Pile in all the usual "vulture fees" (auction house, warehousing, Administrators, lawyers etc.) and that's another at least £100k+ gone. Therefore, at, say, £300k, the LTV on this £500k loan is way over 100%. There's far smarter cookies than myself here. What LTV would you give this loan?
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KoR_Wraith
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Post by KoR_Wraith on Sept 13, 2021 10:51:09 GMT
The asset value is stock of £826k and "no LTV has been provided". How marvellous. Is the £826k likely to retail or wholesale value? I would never profess to be an expert on high-end shoes, but I have suffered a lot of Administrations of companies that borrowed money from me. I am guestimating that if one tries to sell £826k retail value of posh shoes wholesale, they won't sell for more than, say, £400k? Pile in all the usual "vulture fees" (auction house, warehousing, Administrators, lawyers etc.) and that's another at least £100k+ gone. Therefore, at, say, £300k, the LTV on this £500k loan is way over 100%. Previous loans to the subsidiary valued stock at book cost/wholesale value, extract from #157: "The stock is valued at cost price in the balance sheet, but normal retails with a mark-up of 80%"
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ptr120
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Post by ptr120 on Sept 13, 2021 11:00:02 GMT
Interesting disclosure regarding the connected party, who is also finance director of the platform. I'm not sure how he could reasonably undertake his responsibilities to the platform if this loan were ever to default.
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Post by westcountry on Sept 13, 2021 11:14:04 GMT
The asset value is stock of £826k and "no LTV has been provided". How marvellous. Is the £826k likely to retail or wholesale value? I would never profess to be an expert on high-end shoes, but I have suffered a lot of Administrations of companies that borrowed money from me. I am guestimating that if one tries to sell £826k retail value of posh shoes wholesale, they won't sell for more than, say, £400k? Pile in all the usual "vulture fees" (auction house, warehousing, Administrators, lawyers etc.) and that's another at least £100k+ gone. Therefore, at, say, £300k, the LTV on this £500k loan is way over 100%. Previous loans to the subsidiary valued stock at book cost/wholesale value, extract from #157: "The stock is valued at cost price in the balance sheet, but normal retails with a mark-up of 80%" ablrate, please could you shed some light on how the £826k stock is valued by LRB Ltd, at cost price or retail price, please? Also, with this loan being secured by a debenture on LRB Ltd, what steps (if any) have been taken to avoid LRB Ltd offering its assets as first-charge security for other loans, please? As any first-charge security would take precedence over ABLRate's debenture.
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Post by westcountry on Sept 13, 2021 11:43:42 GMT
Previous loans to the subsidiary valued stock at book cost/wholesale value, extract from #157: "The stock is valued at cost price in the balance sheet, but normal retails with a mark-up of 80%" ablrate , please could you shed some light on how the £826k stock is valued by LRB Ltd, at cost price or retail price, please? Also, with this loan being secured by a debenture on LRB Ltd, what steps (if any) have been taken to avoid LRB Ltd offering its assets as first-charge security for other loans, please? As any first-charge security would take precedence over ABLRate's debenture. I'd also e-mailed these questions to ABLRate, and had the following response back from Emma Clark: "The finance director has confirmed the methodology of stock valuation below: "Stock, in line with IAS2, is valued at the lower of cost or net realisable value. In this case, as the stock is almost all New Season and we expect to sell it for more than it cost us, it is valued at its purchase price. We would never value stock on a balance sheet at Retail Price. "With regards to the security, the debenture captures current and future assets and contains a negative pledge." This answers my questions, but I'm still unsure about investing given the current situation with the A***** F****** loans.
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ilmoro
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'Wondering which of the bu***rs to blame, and watching for pigs on the wing.' - Pink Floyd
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Post by ilmoro on Sept 13, 2021 11:57:00 GMT
Another loan that has links to big chunks of the loan book - TP is the new NK.
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criston
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Post by criston on Sept 13, 2021 12:03:23 GMT
No underwriters mentioned.
Stock was actually mentioned in Company Accounts as follows, so not an afterthought.
'Stocks are valued at the lower of cost and net realisable value, after making due allowance for obsolete and slow
moving items'
Maximum £500k = 57% LTV of stock/assets or 60% of stock
Minimum £250k = 28% LTV of stock/assets or 30% of stock
Covenant. Stock LTV must not exceed 67% for all tranche outstanding amounts.
How that is checked out is another question.
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macq
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Post by macq on Sept 13, 2021 12:18:44 GMT
Interesting disclosure regarding the connected party, who is also finance director of the platform. I'm not sure how he could reasonably undertake his responsibilities to the platform if this loan were ever to default. Pretty sure from a business prospective this is above board and has been disclosed by Abl so it must be allowed. But it kinda puts me off when searching said director when i also see a connection to another lender (H*****) of borrowers in this group and also another connected person of Abl loans over the years.There are just to many strings crossing over for me to follow now
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