ozboy
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Post by ozboy on Sept 14, 2021 15:41:07 GMT
I have never invested in Bonds/Bonds Funds and the generally accepted standard "wisdom" is to diversify risk among Shares, Cash, Bonds, and Property, and maybe 5 - 10% in Gold.
I have nothing in "Property" because my home is worth quite enough and I have been bunging spondoolies the past few months into Vanguard LifeStrategy 20% Equity (80% Bonds).
A Bonds Fund I imagine is lower riskish than owning individual Bonds and I'm aware that if interest rates go up my Bonds go down in value.
Thing is I don't really know that much about Bonds Funds and I'm wondering if there's a market correction/crash will Bonds Funds be safer/suffer less of a Loss than Shares might?
The past fw years it seems that normal correlations etc have become abnormal and the ole Bonds as a "hedge" against Shares may no longer be true?
What are your thoughts Oh Learned Colleagues out there?
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ptr120
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Post by ptr120 on Sept 14, 2021 15:45:29 GMT
Having something in a bond fund is good for diversification but for me you already have too much in bonds considering the vangard fund you hold. In my case I'd want 80% at least in equities, but my investment priorities may be different to yours.
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ozboy
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Post by ozboy on Sept 14, 2021 16:03:13 GMT
Sorry, should have provided more background.
I'm already into bigger six figures with Shares via several Direct holdings, the old PEPs, and ISAs (good ole Terry Smith!)
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registerme
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Post by registerme on Sept 14, 2021 16:16:08 GMT
Some quick thoughts (that you might be able to follow up on if interested):- 1. Bond markets dwarf equity markets. 2. Bonds come in innumerable shapes and sizes eg whilst GE might have a handful of different equity classes, it could have hundreds, if not thousands, of different issued bonds. 3. As a result of 2. there's far less in the way of "passive" bond funds. There's no real "FTSE 100" for bonds*. 5. Also as a result of 2. there's far less transparency in the bond market, which makes for bigger spreads*. 6. A US Treasury fund is going to have a very different risk / return profile to a corporate bond fund, which in turn will be different to a high yield fund. What price local currency Turkish corporate debt these days? 7. I don't think you can talk simply in terms of a what will happen to bond funds in the event of a market correction / crash eg you might envisage a "flight to safety" (ie Treasuries go up), whilst corporate bonds might get hammered. In general though bonds should be less risky than equities (take that with a huge pinch of salt). 8. I think there might be some substance to your comment re them being less of an equities hedge than they were in the past. To ptr120 's point yup, good for diversification, though it's hard to say whether you have too much in bonds at the moment (given your LifeStrategy 20 holdings) because we don't know how much of your overall portfolio that makes up, or your appetite for risk, or your time horizons etc etc etc. I'm off to the pub, I'll ponder more . * I think efforts are afoot to change this, but I am not sure how much progress has been made. Even then it'll likely benefit institutions first...
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Post by Deleted on Sept 14, 2021 16:31:09 GMT
I understand a dumb man called Mr Farish (he of Brexit fame) is offering training in Bond trading. Like supping with the devil.
I only have PIBS which behave a bit like bonds.
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hazellend
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Post by hazellend on Sept 14, 2021 16:49:56 GMT
Sorry, should have provided more background. I'm already into bigger six figures with Shares via several Direct holdings, the old PEPs, and ISAs (good ole Terry Smith!) You should work out your allocation across your entire holding. Most people got for around 70:30
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hazellend
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Post by hazellend on Sept 14, 2021 16:53:11 GMT
I understand a dumb man called Mr Farish (he of Brexit fame) is offering training in Bond trading. Like supping with the devil.
I only have PIBS which behave a bit like bonds.
Bonds in a balanced portfolio usually refers to ultra high quality government bonds. PIBS are very high risk in comparison. Personally I stick close to 100% global equities and don’t own bonds (but do have a DB pension)
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ozboy
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Post by ozboy on Sept 14, 2021 16:58:53 GMT
Thanks hazellend , have done that, which is why I've been investing in Bonds Funds recently. Thanks registerme , I do take it with a pinch of salt (" In general though bonds should be less risky than equities") but figure my previous 75% in Shares with around 25% Cash is too "Shares" risky for moi. Thanks @bobo, I looked at PIBS yonks ago but don't like 'em for various reasons. Good comments, Thank You folks.
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hazellend
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Post by hazellend on Sept 14, 2021 17:03:32 GMT
Thanks hazellend , have done that, which is why I've been investing in Bonds Funds recently. Thanks registerme , I do take it with a pinch of salt (" In general though bonds should be less risky than equities") but figure my previous 75% in Shares with around 25% Cash is too "Shares" risky for moi. Thanks @bobo, I looked at PIBS yonks ago but don't like 'em for various reasons. Good comments, Thank You folks. Is that 75% shares for your whole portfolio or just the equity:bond part of your portfolio?
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ozboy
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Post by ozboy on Sept 14, 2021 17:09:39 GMT
Was 75% shares of the whole, now down of course with my buying LifeStrategy 20% Equity/80% Bonds.
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macq
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Post by macq on Sept 14, 2021 17:10:18 GMT
One good place to read up on bonds might be the Monevator site (it will at least be in plain English) which as well as having general guides to bonds and portfolio building has had a few articles over the last couple of months about different types of bonds.By picking VLS 20 it looks like you have decide on a cheap passive fund rather then say a active strategic bond fund.Within passive there are ETF's from the likes of Vanguard & iShares that are global aggregate bond funds holding thousands of govt/corp bonds to cover pretty much everything (much like an all world index stock fund) and Vanguard have their target retirement funds which move more into "safe" bonds the nearer the date If you have moved into bonds to diversify or because you think they will be safer then don't forget when people talk about the poor returns compared to stocks- and they will (and are probably right) then that's not why you wanted them in the first place
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ozboy
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Post by ozboy on Sept 14, 2021 17:19:10 GMT
Correct macq. I'm not particularly bright at all this and just decided I needed some sort of "hedge" against my huge dependence/overweight in Shares, and I'm happy with set and forget Passive Bonds Funds, particularly the lower charges. I'm not looking for stock market type returns with my Bond Funds, just a "hedge" as I have said and I'm happy if I get 3%+
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macq
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Post by macq on Sept 14, 2021 17:47:16 GMT
Correct macq . I'm not particularly bright at all this and just decided I needed some sort of "hedge" against my huge dependence/overweight in Shares, and I'm happy with set and forget Passive Bonds Funds, particularly the lower charges. I'm not looking for stock market type returns with my Bond Funds, just a "hedge" as I have said and I'm happy if I get 3%+ You and me both with bonds on the "bright side" so i was always active with high yield and investment trusts etc but changed to passive ETF and multi asset funds a couple of years back. Just had a quick look at Monevator and the 3rd article on the home page is "how to read a bond fund" from last Friday with links to other bond articles within,so might be a starting point
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Post by overthehill on Sept 14, 2021 18:23:04 GMT
If you're thinking of putting large sums into bonds right now do your homework. Bonds have been on a longer rally than stocks and bond funds usually suffer when interest rates start going up. I don't know what's been happening over the last 6-9 months as I sold all my bond funds. A 4% pa return over the last 5 years would be a decent return for UK corporate bond funds and that's with favourable conditions, unless you are a particularly good or lucky fund picker. Just saying.
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james100
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Post by james100 on Sept 15, 2021 11:33:21 GMT
ozboy you might find Wise Alpha's bond academy interesting. Its a 5 part course I did last year when looking at this. A CPD-accredited thing so there are questions in each module to stop you nodding off by accident learn.wisealpha.com/ you probably know a lot of it already but it's pulled together efficiently to take a student from beginner to semi-advanced in a short timeframe which I liked. I'm not invested with WA or corporate bonds/bond funds at all (have used ishares IGLS as GBP proxy and SAAA as a global stabilizer function bu those both government only bonds), but looking to move into this over next year or so.
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