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Post by overthehill on Sept 15, 2021 10:11:30 GMT
Invented by the rich and the crown so they could earn income from land which was at some point in history stolen, gifted or inherited whilst keeping control of it.
Murky subject of leaseholds and their murkier contracts is finally getting a torch shone on it by the CMA.
Even way back when I bought my first house, leaseholds seemed about as attractive as a beach house sitting below high tide. I didn't even know leaseholds on houses were a thing until about 5 years ago.
I understand why people get trapped, developers set the price to make the house seem better value and then increase the ground rents, maintenance fees and freehold price later. It seems even the lawyers are in on it or can't figure out the contract implications. This scandal broke about 2 years ago I think.
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ozboy
Member of DD Central
Mine's a Large One! (Snigger, snigger .......)
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Post by ozboy on Sept 15, 2021 13:16:39 GMT
Usual story, plenty of "Professionals" involved ( "You can trust me, I'm in a Profession, I work to high standards & ethics and possess the utmost integrity!") with a view to skinning the unwary. The "Professions" once enjoyed such a lofty position that they were unchallenged, never queried, and everyone just trusted them because they were in a "Profession". Not anymore, and you're a mug if you do. Jaded? Moi? No, never!  [ Yes, yes, I'm very aware there are many honest Professionals, but why don't the various Professional Bodies sort out their rotten Mmembers? Doesn't ever happen much does it, wonder why? RICS anyone, for starters.] |
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Post by bernythedolt on Sept 16, 2021 2:44:51 GMT
It really stinks, but it surprises me that any purchaser can claim to be unaware of the land rent doubling every x years. The biggest purchase in their life and they didn't bother to read the covenant clauses before signing the contract?
I studied mine in minute detail and made sure to ask my solicitor about anything I didn't understand.
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Post by overthehill on Sept 16, 2021 8:02:34 GMT
It really stinks, but it surprises me that any purchaser can claim to be unaware of the land rent doubling every x years. The biggest purchase in their life and they didn't bother to read the covenant clauses before signing the contract? I studied mine in minute detail and made sure to ask my solicitor about anything I didn't understand.
To be fair people don't have the time, inclination or ability to understand contracts esp. buying a house whose contracts don't even use everyday english in parts.
I've already highlighted sub-standard legal professionals, your solicitor should go through it with you face to face step by step highlighting all the important details, maybe I just had a good solicitor.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2021 12:10:10 GMT
I understand that some of the house builders insisted that the buyers used "their" lawyers
You can't legislate for stupid.
Or there is another expression. "Look Around the Poker Table; If You Can’t See the Sucker, You’re It"
What leases used to do was to offer a developer some income while they completed the necessary infrastructure during a build or site development, what has happened here is clash of awareness on both sides.
Have you noticed that while professionals have become less trustworthy the buying public have become more trusting... makes you think, where in school are they taught, don't trust people apart from the playground?
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michaelc
Member of DD Central
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Post by michaelc on Sept 16, 2021 12:26:05 GMT
How can someone "own" a leasehold flat in a block without having the concept of a lease ? Unlike land, the flat could disappear (fire, old age, demolished etc)
I suppose in an ideal world, all leaseholds would not expire (unless the underlying property disappeared which is presumably the case now) and all leaseholders would have an automatic right to a percentage of the underlying freehold of the block.
That seems too simple to me so its probably riddled with floors (so to speak).
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2021 12:45:34 GMT
There are alternatives like the tenaments in Glasgow or the weird houses in Hebden Bridge where the house on one street is built on top of the house on the street below.
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Greenwood2
Member of DD Central
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Post by Greenwood2 on Sept 16, 2021 15:05:08 GMT
There are alternatives like the tenaments in Glasgow or the weird houses in Hebden Bridge where the house on one street is built on top of the house on the street below. There were until recently 'Feu dues', as my grandmother called them in Scotland, that were payable on most property (originally to the feudal lord, I think) but they were pretty trivial amounts, in her day anyway. We sold an uncle's house recently and there were estate fees to pay on that even now (again I think a relic from some ancient land rights) but all of £5 a year. In the past, although we avoided buying leasehold, it was pretty benign, you looked for a long lease and if necessary it seemed that you could extend the lease or buy the freehold fairly easily. I guess some people have gone into these new deals thinking that would be the case now, but some developers seem to have got a bright new idea to make money out of the unwitting in perpetuity.
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ozboy
Member of DD Central
Mine's a Large One! (Snigger, snigger .......)
Posts: 3,156
Likes: 4,830
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Post by ozboy on Sept 16, 2021 15:28:03 GMT
I understand that some of the house builders insisted that the buyers used "their" lawyers
You can't legislate for stupid.
Or there is another expression. "Look Around the Poker Table; If You Can’t See the Sucker, You’re It"
What leases used to do was to offer a developer some income while they completed the necessary infrastructure during a build or site development, what has happened here is clash of awareness on both sides.
Have you noticed that while professionals have become less trustworthy the buying public have become more trusting... makes you think, where in school are they taught, don't trust people apart from the playground?
You're a man very much after my own heart @bobo .......................... 
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2021 15:43:05 GMT
I think that some of this is because the nation has become used to bailing out people as a normal thing. The biggest of which was the bank miss-selling their services. What might have been a serious hardship for some became free money for others and a general attitude that "not reading the contract is not my problem" which of course has been compounded by websites that lob 27 pages of s@ t at you and no one bothers to read it because "well, who has time".
Even family members have refused to read insurance documents that clearly say "you are not covered for this" and then seek redress and often win redress, because, the language is "all too difficult". I absolutely sympathise but at times we seem to be bringing up generations of people who can't be "arsed".
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Post by overthehill on Sept 24, 2021 16:50:25 GMT
I was looking for somewhere to post and happened to notice the creator of this thread is shown as df even though I created it. Moderators ?
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Post by df on Sept 27, 2021 20:02:03 GMT
I was looking for somewhere to post and happened to notice the creator of this thread is shown as df even though I created it. Moderators ?
You have created it in "General p2p Discussions" and I moved it to "Chat" as I thought it will be a more appropriate board for this thread. I guess this is why I'm displayed as a "creator". I didn't mean to steal your authorship and please accept my apologies for any inconvenience.
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