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Post by df on Oct 8, 2021 10:07:34 GMT
TLDR; Be prepared to get nothing further back! This is what I thought a while ago anyway. This update confirmed it. I'm still hoping to get repayments from CSP and MTBL, but written off the rest of my loan book.
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merlin99
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Post by merlin99 on Oct 8, 2021 10:38:38 GMT
Frankly I never though we would get much back once the Administrators had been called in. If the wind down plans had come into operation before administration we would have stood a chance of a reasonable pay out provided we were not lending to crooks.
My first job when I left school (when God was a boy and Pontius was a pilot) was as an articled clerk to a firm of Chartered Accountants who were also "Receivers". One day I happened to see an account for the winding up of a business and one of the actions was under a heading "banking". I had done the banking a few days before, I was given a cheque and paying in book and told to bank it in the bank next door. At the time I was being paid £4 per week the charge made for my services was £15. GIves youa clue as to what happens to the proceeds of an administration does it not!!
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ilmoro
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Post by ilmoro on Oct 8, 2021 10:59:56 GMT
Frankly I never though we would get much back once the Administrators had been called in. If the wind down plans had come into operation before administration we would have stood a chance of a reasonable pay out provided we were not lending to crooks. The winddown plan did come into play before administration, it was scuppered by a borrower taking legal action, which is why we are where we are. Some people argued strongly that we should have been here sooner.
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ozboy
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Post by ozboy on Oct 8, 2021 11:58:27 GMT
All this continuous legal wrangling with the various Failed Platforms, and their relentless siphoning off, along with the Administrators, of what little cash remains does my head in, as I'm sure it is doing to everyone else too.
Bottom Line re MT, is there a chance we are on the hook for more than our original Capital loaned out?
Also, it's only a matter of time before someone pops round and has a cuppa tea and a serious chat with one or more Directors of these Failed Platforms, you can't expect to pull these sorts of strokes and then be free to gaily saunter off unscathed into the sunset with your ill gotten swag.
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squid
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Post by squid on Oct 8, 2021 12:37:56 GMT
In general, investors were led to understand that in the event of a platform failure, a wind down plan would near seamlessly be implemented which should take care of managing the investments in much the same way as the platform would otherwise have done. The reality is of course quite different. The wind down plans either do not operate as intended, or they have insufficient funding to work as intended. This is not the fault of investors. All approved by the FCA however.
It has become clear that platform failure is the major risk with all P2P. It tends to lead to the first negative question being asked of any potential new platform:
1. Exactly how does your wind down plan operate in the event of platform failure?
2. How is the wind down plan funded?
3. What happens if the funds are insufficient?
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huxs
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Post by huxs on Oct 8, 2021 12:41:56 GMT
So, who signed off on the wind up preparations (contingencies?) being sufficient? Yes an obvious alternative source to cover the cost of the wind down (the FCA), they signed off that they where sufficient when they clearly are not. Also surely there should be an insurance policy put in place for all P2P firms that cover these costs.
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7d7
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Post by 7d7 on Oct 8, 2021 13:20:27 GMT
What I find appalling is the very directors who created this mess unashamedly aim to enrich themselves further. When I think of the loan misrepresentations, poor due diligence, over-valuations, fictitious pledges etc, I can't help but shake my head. It was of no great surprise that the last few substandard loans prior to wind-down attracted negligible bids.
The emergence of the so-called orderly wind-down produced nothing but delays for a whole year plus a pittance recovery for the Newcastle loan. Then came the final nail in the coffin; the legal blunder with a borrower, which precipitated administration.
The JA including the directors now wish to team up with a conflict administrator, apparently 'a partner', to raid the trust assets. Given the dreadful level of enforcement proceeds, expect scraps, if any, to fall from the masters' table if we spectate. One cannot complain in the future as the outcome of the ruling is binding.
MT is right up there with Lendy and FS. The FCA is complicit in this scandal so lenders have to battle for their hard-earned funds.
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sqh
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Post by sqh on Oct 8, 2021 13:38:58 GMT
What I find appalling is the very directors who created this mess unashamedly aim to enrich themselves further. When I think of the loan misrepresentations, poor due diligence, over-valuations, fictitious pledges etc, I can't help but shake my head. It was of no great surprise that the last few substandard loans prior to wind-down attracted negligible bids. The emergence of the so-called orderly wind-down produced nothing but delays for a whole year plus a pittance recovery for the Newcastle loan. Then came the final nail in the coffin; the legal blunder with a borrower, which precipitated administration. The JA including the directors now wish to team up with a conflict administrator, apparently 'a partner', to raid the trust assets. Given the dreadful level of enforcement proceeds, expect scraps, if any, to fall from the masters' table if we spectate. One cannot complain in the future as the outcome of the ruling is binding. MT is right up there with Lendy and FS. The FCA is complicit in this scandal so lenders have to battle for their hard-earned funds. 1. The FCA didn't warn lenders that administration costs must be paid for by lenders. If lenders are having to pay for mistakes made in other loans then it's not P2P. 2. Lender funds are ringfenced, so administrators can't help themselves to lender funds. 3. The FCA should not allow a P2P platform to go into administration, unless the FCA are prepared to cover the costs of administration. I think these 3 facts form the basis for a legal claim against the FCA.
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rocky1
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Post by rocky1 on Oct 8, 2021 14:15:15 GMT
is there any chance now that LENDY and FS administrators come up with something like this little nugget from MT.
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Greenwood2
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Post by Greenwood2 on Oct 8, 2021 15:13:49 GMT
What I find appalling is the very directors who created this mess unashamedly aim to enrich themselves further. When I think of the loan misrepresentations, poor due diligence, over-valuations, fictitious pledges etc, I can't help but shake my head. It was of no great surprise that the last few substandard loans prior to wind-down attracted negligible bids. The emergence of the so-called orderly wind-down produced nothing but delays for a whole year plus a pittance recovery for the Newcastle loan. Then came the final nail in the coffin; the legal blunder with a borrower, which precipitated administration. The JA including the directors now wish to team up with a conflict administrator, apparently 'a partner', to raid the trust assets. Given the dreadful level of enforcement proceeds, expect scraps, if any, to fall from the masters' table if we spectate. One cannot complain in the future as the outcome of the ruling is binding. MT is right up there with Lendy and FS. The FCA is complicit in this scandal so lenders have to battle for their hard-earned funds. 1. The FCA didn't warn lenders that administration costs must be paid for by lenders. If lenders are having to pay for mistakes made in other loans then it's not P2P. 2. Lender funds are ringfenced, so administrators can't help themselves to lender funds. 3. The FCA should not allow a P2P platform to go into administration, unless the FCA are prepared to cover the costs of administration. I think these 3 facts form the basis for a legal claim against the FCA. The wind down of the loan book needs to be separated from any administration of the P2P company, but then there would be no funds or very little funds for the administration. If the administrators just liquidate the company because of no funds what then happens to the wind down of the loan book? And then I suppose if a borrower (or any other connected party) is unhappy about the outcome of the company administration they would go after the entity winding down the loan book for recompense. It needs some sort of legal framework to protect lenders, I don't know enough (in fact hardly anything) about such things to even make a suggestion, but it's not satisfactory at the minute. Most of the funds lie in the loan book so that is what all parties want a piece of.
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min
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Post by min on Oct 8, 2021 15:31:12 GMT
And what, if anything can P2P investors realistically do about the situations we have encountered having invested via failed FCA regulated platforms where the wind down plans have not worked adequately for whatever reason? Where are the perceived investor protections? This is very possibly a very stupid and unworkable idea but experiences with Col, Lendy, FS and now MT have shown that calling in administrators is just a way for administrators to get rich and investors to get ripped off. So, can we fight back? Maybe we, as investors, should ask the court to throw out the administrators proposals (after all it seems to me that they are asking the court if they can have our money to pay themselves exorbitant fees) and tell them to instead pass all of the details re lenders, borrowers, loan information etc over to an organisation run by the lenders. Lenders would obviously have to form such an organisation. Maybe we could form a limited company (MT Recovery Ltd) and could do the admin work ourselves. I am retired and would happily do admin for minimum wage. I am sure there are others in the same boat - some possibly with more legal knowledge than I have got. A limited company would need some working capital - maybe everyone pays in 1% of their investment and get that back first from any recoveries. Obviously issues if some lenders wouldn't/didn't join but court could rule on that situation. Like I said, probably a stupid idea and unworkable but I am sure we would do a better job than the administrators.
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markdirac
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Post by markdirac on Oct 8, 2021 15:52:37 GMT
... ... is there a chance we are on the hook for more than our original Capital loaned out? ... Where is there any suggestion that this could be the case?
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ozboy
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Post by ozboy on Oct 8, 2021 16:00:08 GMT
... ... is there a chance we are on the hook for more than our original Capital loaned out? ... Where is there any suggestion that this could be the case? There isn't, but we who have been battered, bruised and right royally shafted by the whole P2P Fiasco are surprised by nothing that the Vested Interests will attempt to get up to .......................
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boundah
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Post by boundah on Oct 8, 2021 17:23:01 GMT
I don't think there's an alternative to what the administrators are asking for. Basically they'll walk away if they can't draw more in fees than the current waterfall arrangement. If we take their word for it that there's nobody else willing to step in, no more work will be done to recover defaults. So we'd get nothing back.
This may not be a popular view, but I see no mileage in arguing the toss. If the administrators lose the case, we probably get zero. If they win, we could at least get something.
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squid
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Post by squid on Oct 8, 2021 17:53:39 GMT
It doesn’t really matter how well planned or funded the wind down plan is, legal action taken by borrowers, lenders, creditors or directors against the platform will blow it out of the water every time. Therein lies the inherent problem with all P2P. Is there any solution though?
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