ilmoro
Member of DD Central
'Wondering which of the bu***rs to blame, and watching for pigs on the wing.' - Pink Floyd
Posts: 11,315 
Likes: 11,523
|
Post by ilmoro on Nov 23, 2022 22:27:44 GMT
Done a bit more research on the tax issue. There was legislation passed earlier this year www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2022/572/article/2/made to bring alternative finance products (eg Islamic finance) into line with the tax treatment for standard peer to peer. However the key clause would appear to be clause 3d "those owners becoming parties to the agreement was facilitated by an electronic system operated by a person who has permission under Part 4A of FISMA 2000(2) to carry on, in relation to that system, the regulated activity specified in article 36H(1) of the Financial Services and Markets Act 2000 (Regulated Activities) Order 2001 (S.I. 2001/544)(3) (operating an electronic system in relation to lending)" As Qardus does not have this permission so their products do not appear to the equivalent of a p2P loan It is quite difficult to determine exactly how taxation works, particularly as the structure indicated by Qardus doesnt seem to fully reconcile with the various structures covered by HMRC manual and is further complicated by there being no personal taxation info just corporate Its seems to me that they would be covered by www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manuals/corporate-finance-manual/cfm44100 so income is interest but there is no offsetting for losses AFAICS |
|
ilmoro
Member of DD Central
'Wondering which of the bu***rs to blame, and watching for pigs on the wing.' - Pink Floyd
Posts: 11,315
Likes: 11,523
|
Post by ilmoro on Nov 23, 2022 22:45:55 GMT
AFAICS interest + capital returned so far is just under a third of the loan, so (treating all returns as return of capital) max loss is just over two thirds, but as the business seems to have been sold unless the Admin costs eat up all the sale proceeds there should not be a loss that big. I may be uncharacteristically over optimistic but I am hoping for a near full return of capital, (counting interest as such because when a loan goes bad I am only concerned about my capital) What makes you think it has been sold? According to the info on CH it has non-secured/preferential debts of £1.4m & free assets of £130k, so current return would be 4p in £ and it wouldnt surprise me if fees dont eat most of that. Lease has been forfeited so thats not an asset (Landlord owed £550k)
|
|
trium
Member of DD Central
Posts: 384
Likes: 304
|
Post by trium on Nov 24, 2022 4:33:15 GMT
My largest loan on any platform by quite some way. I suspect I'm not the only one who was tempted to over-expose due to a generous bonus. My own fault.
|
|
Greenwood2
Member of DD Central
Posts: 4,376
Likes: 2,780
|
Post by Greenwood2 on Nov 24, 2022 7:17:50 GMT
Done a bit more research on the tax issue. There was legislation passed earlier this year www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2022/572/article/2/made to bring alternative finance products (eg Islamic finance) into line with the tax treatment for standard peer to peer. However the key clause would appear to be clause 3d "those owners becoming parties to the agreement was facilitated by an electronic system operated by a person who has permission under Part 4A of FISMA 2000(2) to carry on, in relation to that system, the regulated activity specified in article 36H(1) of the Financial Services and Markets Act 2000 (Regulated Activities) Order 2001 (S.I. 2001/544)(3) (operating an electronic system in relation to lending)" As Qardus does not have this permission so their products do not appear to the equivalent of a p2P loan It is quite difficult to determine exactly how taxation works, particularly as the structure indicated by Qardus doesnt seem to fully reconcile with the various structures covered by HMRC manual and is further complicated by there being no personal taxation info just corporate Its seems to me that they would be covered by www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manuals/corporate-finance-manual/cfm44100 so income is interest but there is no offsetting for losses AFAICS But isn't that what they are doing, in a Sharia compliant way? All seems a bit impenetrable. Should we be concerned that they don't have permission for 'operating an electronic system in relation to lending'? (We've been here before).
|
|
|
|
Post by overthehill on Nov 24, 2022 8:42:42 GMT
My largest loan on any platform by quite some way. I suspect I'm not the only one who was tempted to over-expose due to a generous bonus. My own fault.
Unsecured business loans are by far the most risky in P2P and sometimes the returns are not much better than loans with security. I tried Archover but when 2 loans exploded within weeks I got out. As with Qardus no SM. One was a 55% recovery and lost interest and the other is on the normal 3 or 4 year path to the courts, a 70% recovery would mean I break even on a capital basis but more lost interest.
|
|
littleoldlady
Member of DD Central
Running down all platforms due to age
Posts: 3,045
Likes: 1,862
|
Post by littleoldlady on Nov 24, 2022 8:54:26 GMT
AFAICS interest + capital returned so far is just under a third of the loan, so (treating all returns as return of capital) max loss is just over two thirds, but as the business seems to have been sold unless the Admin costs eat up all the sale proceeds there should not be a loss that big. I may be uncharacteristically over optimistic but I am hoping for a near full return of capital, (counting interest as such because when a loan goes bad I am only concerned about my capital) What makes you think it has been sold? According to the info on CH it has non-secured/preferential debts of £1.4m & free assets of £130k, so current return would be 4p in £ and it wouldnt surprise me if fees dont eat most of that. Lease has been forfeited so thats not an asset (Landlord owed £550k) The borrower said "he had sold what he could" and I took that at face value. Having now followed the link to CH I see what you mean. A total write off is a virtual certainty. There is no cash in the assets so whatever it was he sold - I presume his stock - the proceeds have been spent or withdrawn. It's easy in hindsight but I find it hard to believe that the accounts could have looked very healthy at the time of the loan and this severely damages my confidence in Q's DD. I'm on the way out.
|
|
dave4
Member of DD Central
Cynical is a hobby not a lifestyle
Posts: 1,055
Likes: 616
|
Post by dave4 on Jan 25, 2023 16:33:14 GMT
UPdate.
Not terrible.
|
|
Greenwood2
Member of DD Central
Posts: 4,376
Likes: 2,780
|
Post by Greenwood2 on Jan 25, 2023 16:49:41 GMT
Wait and see if the promises turn into funds. 
|
|
littleoldlady
Member of DD Central
Running down all platforms due to age
Posts: 3,045
Likes: 1,862
|
Post by littleoldlady on Jan 25, 2023 18:17:36 GMT
If this results in a payment will it be the first successful claim against a PG in the history of the world? If it does I will personally put it down to religious scruples, which would be a big plus point for Islamic lending.
|
|
|
|
Post by df on Jan 25, 2023 18:19:32 GMT
I'm surprised. I thought we won't see any prospect of recovery. Well done Q!
|
|
|
|
Post by df on Jan 25, 2023 18:43:55 GMT
If this results in a payment will it be the first successful claim against a PG in the history of the world? If it does I will personally put it down to religious scruples, which would be a big plus point for Islamic lending. When deciding whether to invest with Q or not "sharia compliant" bit was one of the factors that helped me to make a decision. It's an extra layer of security (worth much more than FCA membership imo). It won't be the first in the history of the world , there were many successful claims against PGs in the history of p2p. But it's true, the majority of PGs turned to be useless.
|
|
Greenwood2
Member of DD Central
Posts: 4,376
Likes: 2,780
|
Post by Greenwood2 on Jan 25, 2023 21:07:54 GMT
I'm surprised. I thought we won't see any prospect of recovery. Well done Q! We will see, so many loans on other platforms have been 'expected' to repay and nothing arrives. Hopefully this one will be good.
|
|
littleoldlady
Member of DD Central
Running down all platforms due to age
Posts: 3,045
Likes: 1,862
|
Post by littleoldlady on Jan 25, 2023 21:29:42 GMT
If this results in a payment will it be the first successful claim against a PG in the history of the world? If it does I will personally put it down to religious scruples, which would be a big plus point for Islamic lending. When deciding whether to invest with Q or not "sharia compliant" bit was one of the factors that helped me to make a decision. It's an extra layer of security (worth much more than FCA membership imo). It won't be the first in the history of the world , there were many successful claims against PGs in the history of p2p. But it's true, the majority of PGs turned to be useless. Well it would be the first one in the history on one little old lady!
|
|
Greenwood2
Member of DD Central
Posts: 4,376
Likes: 2,780
|
Post by Greenwood2 on Jan 26, 2023 8:53:44 GMT
If this results in a payment will it be the first successful claim against a PG in the history of the world? If it does I will personally put it down to religious scruples, which would be a big plus point for Islamic lending. When deciding whether to invest with Q or not "sharia compliant" bit was one of the factors that helped me to make a decision. It's an extra layer of security (worth much more than FCA membership imo). It won't be the first in the history of the world , there were many successful claims against PGs in the history of p2p. But it's true, the majority of PGs turned to be useless. But usually they negotiate down what they have to pay back and put the timescale up by years.
|
|
mcfc
I’m invested in Qardus, Loanpad, Proplend, and Crowproperty
Posts: 97
Likes: 65
|
Post by mcfc on Feb 27, 2023 11:55:24 GMT
Well, it’s 27th Feb today,… I await with bated breath the promised repayment’s in February……….
|
|
