michaelc
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Post by michaelc on Feb 9, 2024 19:58:24 GMT
Thats a humbling watch. What you don't see in the MSM, what is edited out to save you from seeing or facing the truth are the bodies and body parts. I think it tends to give people a sports match attitude to conflict. In Syria, Gaza, Ukraine the impact of bombs on civilians is described to an extent by reporters, but an editor judges you should not face the reality. I think politicians would feel more pressure to step in and end conflicts if their voters were seeing the full truth. I agree with that but actually isn't that an advantage of the emerging anyone-to-anyone media in that overall probably more people witness the terrible truth of war? Of course, what is harder to convey on any media is the scale of lower-level suffering. So not the few facing torture or the few more tens of thousands facing death by being blown up but the million and millions whose lives are affected with things like being forced out of their houses or to other countries. Then there are even more millions who go to bed at night wondering if they'll wake up. The grind of that life every day for years must be hard to get across.
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Post by captainconfident on Feb 9, 2024 20:21:31 GMT
Thats a humbling watch. What you don't see in the MSM, what is edited out to save you from seeing or facing the truth are the bodies and body parts. I think it tends to give people a sports match attitude to conflict. In Syria, Gaza, Ukraine the impact of bombs on civilians is described to an extent by reporters, but an editor judges you should not face the reality. I think politicians would feel more pressure to step in and end conflicts if their voters were seeing the full truth. I agree with that but actually isn't that an advantage of the emerging anyone-to-anyone media in that overall probably more people witness the terrible twruth of war? Of course, what is harder to convey on any media is the scale of lower-level suffering. So not the few facing torture or the few more tens of thousands facing death by being blown up but the million and millions whose lives are affected with things like being forced out of their houses or to other countries. Then there are even more millions who go to bed at night wondering if they'll wake up. The grind of that life every day for years must be hard to get across. Its something I think about sometimes, that we can't physically feel the pain or suffering of other beings (The Star Trek episode "The Empath" tried to deal with this, I seem to remember). We can hear it, I remember hearing a dog just screaming with terror, locked in somewhere one New Years day at about 2am in France. I could hear terror deep inside me. But really we are like the Kommandant of Auschwitz in that film. I think we need to see, to come close to pain and fear of people mutilated but alive for instance. Verbal description doesn't come close. Of course we would be overwhelmed, but as a sometimes writer about war I am troubled that war can seem like an exciting competition because some words inserted to try to remind of the gory and pain filled reality, are inadequate to really say what war is like. What I'm trying to express ( badly) is we have to look away, because the truth is so appalling. But because we are not shown or do not look, it is easy to treat things too lightly.
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travolta
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Post by travolta on Feb 9, 2024 21:22:01 GMT
Politicians cannot end conflicts they can only mop up after military might . Both my sons are military and have faced the above in Irac, Afghanistan, one is even now in Jordan. They are professional and calm and have surprised even themselves,in conflict and aftermath. They both say that it is down to training and Brits are head and shoulders above the rest in this aspect.
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Post by bracknellboy on Feb 10, 2024 13:28:55 GMT
"Historian Tom Holland Debunks Putin's Historical Inaccuracies in Tucker Carlson Interview"
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Post by overthehill on Feb 10, 2024 14:03:35 GMT
putin's fantasy lost empire
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angrysaveruk
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Post by angrysaveruk on Feb 10, 2024 15:50:13 GMT
Just watched the Tucker Carlson interview. Was interesting to hear Putin's perspective on things. The main positive I thought was how Putin seemed to be a bit torn about killing hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians who he seems to consider Russians. Hopefully when the Zelensky government collapses which I suspect will be sooner rather than later there is a real chance of a negotiated settlement taking place. He also confirmed what the Ukrainian Government officials have said - that the Russians had a peace treaty signed with Ukraine until Johnson persuaded Zelensky to tear it up.
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ilmoro
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Post by ilmoro on Feb 10, 2024 18:40:24 GMT
Just watched the Tucker Carlson interview. Was interesting to hear Putin's perspective on things. The main positive I thought was how Putin seemed to be a bit torn about killing hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians who he seems to consider Russians. Hopefully when the Zelensky government collapses which I suspect will be sooner rather than later there is a real chance of a negotiated settlement taking place. He also confirmed what the Ukrainian Government officials have said - that the Russians had a peace treaty signed with Ukraine until Johnson persuaded Zelensky to tear it up. Except they almost certainly havent ... what they have said is that Johnson (and other leaders) wouldnt give the security guarantees required by the basic framework that had been almost negotiated www.thebureau.news/p/no-the-west-did-not-sabotage-an-early/photo/1
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registerme
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Post by registerme on Feb 10, 2024 19:06:34 GMT
The main positive I thought was how Putin seemed to be a bit torn about killing hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians who he seems to consider Russians. That's a remarkable sentence. It was a positive, was it, that Putin seemed " a bit torn" about killing hundreds of thousands of people? Or was he only " a bit torn" because they were Ukrainian? Or perhaps he was "a bit torn" because he thinks they really ought to be Russians? I mean obviously killing them would be fine if they weren't Russian. And then there's the hundreds of thousands of his own Russians who's lives he's frittered away in this obscenity. Do they count? Oh well, at least I can be reassured that he has a heart.
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angrysaveruk
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Post by angrysaveruk on Feb 10, 2024 19:37:45 GMT
The main positive I thought was how Putin seemed to be a bit torn about killing hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians who he seems to consider Russians. That's a remarkable sentence. It was a positive, was it, that Putin seemed " a bit torn" about killing hundreds of thousands of people? Or was he only " a bit torn" because they were Ukrainian? Or perhaps he was "a bit torn" because he thinks they really ought to be Russians? I mean obviously killing them would be fine if they weren't Russian. And then there's the hundreds of thousands of his own Russians who's lives he's frittered away in this obscenity. Do they count? Oh well, at least I can be reassured that he has a heart. Well I do not think Putin is a nice guy, but I think the fact that he mentioned it in the interview shows it is something he is concerned about - which is a good sign for people who want the mass slaughter of Ukrainians to stop as soon as possible - this war is over in my opinion. I certainly have not seen Bush or Blair show any concern for the hundreds of thousands (possibly million plus) they killed in their invasion of Iraq based on totally fabricated evidence. And then of course there is Neo-Con Hillary and the remorse she showed for her involvement in the destruction of Libya:
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registerme
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Post by registerme on Feb 10, 2024 20:12:30 GMT
angrysaveruk that's called whataboutism . Putin is responsible for the hundreds of thousands of deaths in Ukraine you lament (both Ukrainian and Russian). Crocodile tears become him no more than they do anybody else.
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michaelc
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Post by michaelc on Feb 10, 2024 20:24:55 GMT
angrysaveruk that's called whataboutism . Putin is responsible for the hundreds of thousands of deaths in Ukraine you lament (both Ukrainian and Russian). Crocodile tears become him no more than they do anybody else. Does it mean you agree Hilary and her ilk were at the very, very, best highly insensitive and worked with folk that took decisions to totally fcuk up other countries ? The clip he posted was only 10 seconds - did you watch it ?
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michaelc
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Post by michaelc on Feb 10, 2024 20:30:55 GMT
That's a remarkable sentence. It was a positive, was it, that Putin seemed " a bit torn" about killing hundreds of thousands of people? Or was he only " a bit torn" because they were Ukrainian? Or perhaps he was "a bit torn" because he thinks they really ought to be Russians? I mean obviously killing them would be fine if they weren't Russian. And then there's the hundreds of thousands of his own Russians who's lives he's frittered away in this obscenity. Do they count? Oh well, at least I can be reassured that he has a heart. Well I do not think Putin is a nice guy, but I think the fact that he mentioned it in the interview shows it is something he is concerned about - which is a good sign for people who want the mass slaughter of Ukrainians to stop as soon as possible - this war is over in my opinion. I certainly have not seen Bush or Blair show any concern for the hundreds of thousands (possibly million plus) they killed in their invasion of Iraq based on totally fabricated evidence. And then of course there is Neo-Con Hillary and the remorse she showed for her involvement in the destruction of Libya: I would agree Putin sees most Ukranians as "Russians". Before this war, many if not most would identify with their fellow Russian a millions times more than they would to their common man equivalent in the US for example. A bit like if you asked a Welsh guy (with all their extra culture including language etc), "Do you identify with the bloke in Swindon more than you do with the bloke in Ningbo ?" That's partly what is so sad and tragic.
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registerme
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Post by registerme on Feb 10, 2024 20:44:08 GMT
angrysaveruk that's called whataboutism . Putin is responsible for the hundreds of thousands of deaths in Ukraine you lament (both Ukrainian and Russian). Crocodile tears become him no more than they do anybody else. Does it mean you agree Hilary and her ilk were at the very, very, best highly insensitive and worked with folk that took decisions to totally fcuk up other countries ? The clip he posted was only 10 seconds - did you watch it ? Yes, I agree that Bush, Blair, H Clinton, Rumsfield et al bear huge responsibility for Iraq 2003. And Libya (so might as well chuck our current Foreign Secretary into the pot too) as well. Personally I wouldn't have any problems with them being hauled up in front of The Hague (not that this is going to happen).
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registerme
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Post by registerme on Feb 10, 2024 20:45:56 GMT
A bit like if you asked a Welsh guy (with all their extra culture including language etc), "Do you identify with the bloke in Swindon more than you do with the bloke in Ningbo ?" That's partly what is so sad and tragic. If I were PM, and perceived keitha to be more British than Welsh, would that justify me launching a war of conquest against Wales?
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angrysaveruk
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Post by angrysaveruk on Feb 10, 2024 21:33:29 GMT
Does it mean you agree Hilary and her ilk were at the very, very, best highly insensitive and worked with folk that took decisions to totally fcuk up other countries ? The clip he posted was only 10 seconds - did you watch it ? Yes, I agree that Bush, Blair, H Clinton, Rumsfield et al bear huge responsibility for Iraq 2003. And Libya (so might as well chuck our current Foreign Secretary into the pot too) as well. Personally I wouldn't have any problems with them being hauled up in front of The Hague (not that this is going to happen). Well as you know, my view is the people behind Libya and Iraq have orchestrated this situation in Ukraine. They assumed that provoking Russia into attacking Ukraine by arming Ukraine to the teeth, encouraging an extremist faction within Ukraine to attack Russians and then placing a wave of sanctions on Russia they would get rid of Putin and be in a position to take control of Russia's vast natural resources. It has not worked - they should have called it quits after the Taliban kicked their ass out of Afghanistan and retired to Florida.
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