dave4
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Cynical is a hobby not a lifestyle
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Post by dave4 on Aug 22, 2023 20:47:37 GMT
An update for W******** L*** (L***) has gone up. They explain the circumstances of the loan extension (I'll leave it at that) I take their points, but... There's absolutely zero explanation of how Kuflink's "close monitoring" failed to notice that the project was being mismanaged for over 2 years into an 18 month project. During which time, Kuflink were happy to lend over £2m of lenders funds over 18 tranches!!! I noticed that too. Kuff aren't doing themselves any favours in the lenders confidance bolstering department.
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SteveK
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Post by SteveK on Aug 22, 2023 21:41:31 GMT
I take their points, but... There's absolutely zero explanation of how Kuflink's "close monitoring" failed to notice that the project was being mismanaged for over 2 years into an 18 month project. During which time, Kuflink were happy to lend over £2m of lenders funds over 18 tranches!!! I noticed that too. Kuff aren't doing themselves any favours in the lenders confidance bolstering department. I think this statement is relevant ‘We could place the loan into receivership, or we could work more closely with the developer to help them complete the project. We chose the latter option as it gives the best chance of our investors receiving the return of their funds.’ So there’s a chance that investors may not receive full return of their funds! So no rate increase as it’s in trouble and has to be gently massaged to the finishing line. Oh well, that is probably the best option but may be a sign of the times.
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rocky1
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Post by rocky1 on Aug 23, 2023 3:32:42 GMT
p2p platforms should be jumping in on all these loans months before maturity.what does working more closely with the developer mean ? i thought that was what all this monitoring of loans was all about any way. growth and going forward is all well and good until the wheels stop turning due to lenders funds tied up in late late/overdue/defaulted whatever they want to call them cause new loans to struggle with funding.with retail investment at least.it looks to me that there is a storm brewing across the whole industry and as we know the only casualties of the fall out will be the lenders.
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69m
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Post by 69m on Aug 23, 2023 11:13:15 GMT
I noticed that too. Kuff aren't doing themselves any favours in the lenders confidance bolstering department. I think this statement is relevant ‘We could place the loan into receivership, or we could work more closely with the developer to help them complete the project. We chose the latter option as it gives the best chance of our investors receiving the return of their funds.’ So there’s a chance that investors may not receive full return of their funds! So no rate increase as it’s in trouble and has to be gently massaged to the finishing line. Oh well, that is probably the best option but may be a sign of the times. Lenders caught between a rock and a hard place, but arguably the situation shouldn't have been allowed to develop in the way it has.
I decided that disposing of my holding in this loan represented the best chance of getting my funds back. Thankfully the sale completed very quickly at the start of this week.
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scooter
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Post by scooter on Feb 2, 2024 22:52:43 GMT
Hi, I came to this thread to see if anyone had got a definitive answer to when we get higher interest on re-terms. It doesn't seem to have been resolved here (apologies if it has) so i asked Kuflink and the answer is:
The borrower is not charged more interest on a re-term if they have already made a partial loan repayment.
Default interest is currently not something that we pass over to investors.
I get that the risk might be lowered after a partial repayment, but interest rates have increased since the loans were taken out so........
I had one loan which paid a small amount back at the beginning of the month and at the end of the month gets a 6 month re-term, no penalty interest. The loan is also the same borrower which is currently getting paid out for Tranch 5 of another project.
Interested to know what everyone thinks
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rscal
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Post by rscal on Feb 3, 2024 14:09:38 GMT
The borrower is not charged more interest on a re-term if they have already made a partial loan repayment.Default interest is currently not something that we pass over to investors.I get that the risk might be lowered after a partial repayment, but interest rates have increased since the loans were taken out. I had one loan which paid a small amount back at the beginning of the month and at the end of the month gets a 6 month re-term, no penalty interest. The loan is also the same borrower which is currently getting paid out for Tranche 5 of another project. Interested to know what everyone thinks The inability to exit the loan after the original term is reached is the issue. Kuf makes that impossible by taking a part payment as a condition (we now learn) so the remaining part loan cannot then be listed to the Secondary Market. They say they are working to make such sales technically possible but haven't done so. Suggest your next move is to invite them to manually list your loan part under circumstances where their actions have painted you into with this position. Or if they say they can't/won't do that ask for the proportionate interest they would have added had the loan been extended in a 'listable' condition. They have disadvantaged you vis-a-vis the orginal loan.
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p2pfan
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Full-Time Investor
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Post by p2pfan on Feb 3, 2024 14:31:57 GMT
Kuflink have been promising lenders will be provided with crystal clear information about interest rates on re-terms for years. However, they haven't.
There is a 'Loan Reterm Information' tab that appeared on all Select Invest loans several months ago after pressure from lenders for transparency. However, on all my loans, it remains blank. All it states for every single loan is "No details available at the moment."
The reason that Kuflink keep this information about loan reterm interest rates top secret and will stubbornly refuse to share it with lenders is because we will discover how much we are being taken for a ride.
For instance, as stated by the poster above, my loans in default will also be accruing me a relatively low rate of interest. They are from a few years ago when 6%-7% was considered to be a decent rate.
Now, having been 're-termed' again and again and again, the borrower is not having to pay me a penny extra.
However, Kuflink is enjoying very fat penalty percentages for themselves - which they hide from us.
Unlike almost every other lending platform, they are not willing to share these penalty rates with lenders, despite their repeated promises in the past.
So the only winners in this situation are Kuflink and the borrowers, and the only losers are Kuflink lenders!
By contrast, CrowdProperty pay 2% p.a. extra as soon as a loan goes overdue and other platforms like Somo, Shojin etc. similarly pay lenders extra when a loan is in default.
Kuflink staff must be laughing in their offices at lenders accruing a miserly c. 6% on loans that are years overdue. To put it into perspective, Kuflink may often be getting 12% - 18% from the borrower.
It's why I always prioritise lending on other, fairer, platforms over sneaky Kuflink.
It seems like other lenders do, too, because, while Kuflink loans struggle to get invested in after many days of being live on their platform, the loans on CrowdProperty and Somo etc. get 100% funded within seconds of launching.
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scooter
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Post by scooter on Feb 3, 2024 15:45:26 GMT
Hi p2pfanThere is a 'Loan Reterm Information' tab that appeared on all Select Invest loans several months ago after pressure from lenders for transparency. However, on all my loans, it remains blank. All it states for every single loan is "No details available at the moment."
I asked the question about that too. It appears that if there is nothing in Loan Re-term Information, it is because there is nothing in the re-term for investors. So far all of mine that have nothing in that tab have made a small repayment. So the only winners in this situation are Kuflink and the borrowers, and the only losers are Kuflink lenders!By contrast, CrowdProperty pay 2% p.a. extra as soon as a loan goes overdue and other platforms like Somo, Shojin etc. similarly pay lenders extra when a loan is in default.I mentioned in the email that they are in danger of bias (IMHO) but that was not responded to yet. We know that the FCA would say that we know what we sign up to, but so does the borrower and yet they default and get better terms! I would say that better terms for them is re-term with penalty interest and delay in administration and better terms for us is penalty interest and delay in administration. I didn't realise I couldn't sell if there was a partial repayment made - very sneaky. Who would want to buy it though? I like Kuflink, but I don't trust them very much either. I do reinvest now after pulling a lot (for me) of money out last year, but until the first contracts signed have some hard and fast penalty clauses written into them which investors benefit from I will not put more money in. It occurs to me that I just leave my Proplend Account alone for 3 months at a time and never think I don't know what's going on with it.
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scooter
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Post by scooter on Feb 4, 2024 15:59:14 GMT
Hi, I get all my interest at the end of the loan period, most of which Kuflink retain from the start. All but one infact. Has anyone any info / thoughts on why Kuflink don't pay out that interest at the end of the loan period investors signed up to?
Other that to feather their own nest, what possible reason would they have to keep it from investors?
The longer the "mystery refinances", "phantom sales", "next auctions" and "Receivers working hard" go on, the longer it sits in their bank account not mine.
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Post by overthehill on Feb 4, 2024 17:49:01 GMT
So are Kuflink keeping all accrued interest until an indefinitely extended loan is completed ?
I regret choosing compound interest option having recently twigged it is immutable. A marketing tool to make the interest rate more attractive?
Do all Kuflink loans pay monthly interest (retained or otherwise) including extended loans ?
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scooter
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Post by scooter on Feb 4, 2024 18:43:48 GMT
So are Kuflink keeping all accrued interest until an indefinitely extended loan is completed ?
I regret choosing compound interest option having recently twigged it is immutable. A marketing tool to making the interest rate appear better
Do all Kuflnk loans pay monthly interest (retained or otherwise) including extended loans ?
Yes, i think so. I have asked them to referr me to the part of the contract that says that is what they will do. I don't have any monthly interest but i think it is always available to select. After going through my loans today I have revised my opinion and will just withdraw from now on until or unless they start acting in my best interest. Nothing i have read today makes me think investors have equal billing with borrowers or Kuflink.
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Post by Ace on Feb 4, 2024 18:50:35 GMT
So are Kuflink keeping all accrued interest until an indefinitely extended loan is completed ? Not if you chose the monthly interest option. You would have been paid interest monthly until the initial end date at least. Yep. I haven't seen any without a monthly interest option. Not sure about all extensions. Monthly interest ceases during default. I never choose compound interest on Kuflink. Despite the smoke and mirrors the XIRR is the same whether you choose compound or monthly. If you choose monthly, at least you will have received some payments through the loan term. And that interest can be reinvested in other loans for greater diversification, at least it can in the past year ISA account where the minimum investment is very low.
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Post by overthehill on Feb 4, 2024 19:29:25 GMT
So are Kuflink keeping all accrued interest until an indefinitely extended loan is completed ? Not if you chose the monthly interest option. You would have been paid interest monthly until the initial end date at least. Yep. I haven't seen any without a monthly interest option. Not sure about all extensions. Monthly interest ceases during default. I never choose compound interest on Kuflink. Despite the smoke and mirrors the XIRR is the same whether you choose compound or monthly. If you choose monthly, at least you will have received some payments through the loan term. And that interest can be reinvested in other loans for greater diversification, at least it can in the past year ISA account where the minimum investment is very low.
"Despite the smoke and mirrors the XIRR is the same whether you choose compound or monthly."
What, gasp. A 1 year loan would pay exactly the same amount of interest for either 12 monthly payments or 1 annual compounded payment ? Or maybe I don't understand XIRR.
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Post by overthehill on Feb 4, 2024 19:34:35 GMT
So are Kuflink keeping all accrued interest until an indefinitely extended loan is completed ?
I regret choosing compound interest option having recently twigged it is immutable. A marketing tool to making the interest rate appear better
Do all Kuflnk loans pay monthly interest (retained or otherwise) including extended loans ?
Yes, i think so. I have asked them to referr me to the part of the contract that says that is what they will do. I don't have any monthly interest but i think it is always available to select. After going through my loans today I have revised my opinion and will just withdraw from now on until or unless they start acting in my best interest. Nothing i have read today makes me think investors have equal billing with borrowers or Kuflink.
Ok, so monthly or compound interest is a per loan option not an account option?
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Post by Ace on Feb 4, 2024 19:38:34 GMT
Not if you chose the monthly interest option. You would have been paid interest monthly until the initial end date at least. Yep. I haven't seen any without a monthly interest option. Not sure about all extensions. Monthly interest ceases during default. I never choose compound interest on Kuflink. Despite the smoke and mirrors the XIRR is the same whether you choose compound or monthly. If you choose monthly, at least you will have received some payments through the loan term. And that interest can be reinvested in other loans for greater diversification, at least it can in the past year ISA account where the minimum investment is very low.
"Despite the smoke and mirrors the XIRR is the same whether you choose compound or monthly."
What, gasp. A 1 year loan would pay exactly the same amount of interest for either 12 monthly payments or 1 annual compounded payment ? Or maybe I don't understand XIRR. No. The compound payment would be more than the sum of the 12 monthly payments. However, if the 12 monthly payments were invested in loans at the same rate the total interest would be the same. Hence the XIRRs of the two options would be the same.
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