mogish
Member of DD Central
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Post by mogish on Aug 17, 2022 20:21:56 GMT
Some fixed term are offering over 3% now with 85k protection.
Loanpad recent rate increase helps a bit but if bank rates rise again the risk with Lp may be questionable if its worth it.
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Post by indexfund on Aug 27, 2022 10:09:49 GMT
Risk of loss is overstated by some. I started with big Z in 2005. The great financial crisis hammered my shares but the Zopa return was smooth as the Mediterranean Sea. By covid I was in Zopa, RS, AC, FC and LW. Made money on all of them. My only losses have been on Funding Secure and thankfully I never had much with them a 100% premium to risk free seems ok to me. Especially in an isa where it is hard to get above 1% risk free without a tie in. without doubt p2p has been the lowest volatility risk asset I have invested in over nearly 17 years now. That is ptretty damn impressive for a new asset class. I wholeheartedly agree with you. I have invested in all the larger P2P platforms and most other assets too. I haven't lost a penny on my P2P investments over the last 15 years, not one penny. Has it been stressful at times? yes, and frustrating too. I think the confusion lies in the fact that many (like me) have earnt less from some investments than promised - but these are not 'losses', other than in 'real terms' but then all asset classes are now in net losses in real terms anyway. The unwise and overly optimistic might have invested in the smaller, more speculative platforms but that comes about through lack of knowledge anad reasearch. I have almost exited totally from P2P now but not through my part, more that so many platforms have shut down to retail investors. The only platform I use currently is Loanpad.
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Post by indexfund on Aug 27, 2022 10:16:46 GMT
Risk of loss is overstated by some. I started with big Z in 2005. The great financial crisis hammered my shares but the Zopa return was smooth as the Mediterranean Sea. By covid I was in Zopa, RS, AC, FC and LW. Made money on all of them. My only losses have been on Funding Secure and thankfully I never had much with them a 100% premium to risk free seems ok to me. Especially in an isa where it is hard to get above 1% risk free without a tie in. without doubt p2p has been the lowest volatility risk asset I have invested in over nearly 17 years now. That is pretty damn impressive for a new asset class. That's a sample size of one. You have either been clever or lucky. You will find plenty of others who have lost life changing amounts in this forum. A 100% premium to risk free depends on the level. Which would you prefer a risk free 0.1% or a slightly risky 0.2%? I don't consider myself particularily clever! though I do my research well, and I am not a 'lucky' person. However, I have not lost a single penny with any of my P2P investments over 15 years, other than in 'real terms' (against inflation). Maybe it's because I only ever used larger, well proven platforms, Zopa, FC, LW, RS and LP. Sure it's been stressful at times and I have found LW to be especially challenging! but throughout all of that I have never actually lost anything.
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p2pfan
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Full-Time Investor
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Post by p2pfan on Aug 27, 2022 23:59:10 GMT
That's a sample size of one. You have either been clever or lucky. You will find plenty of others who have lost life changing amounts in this forum. A 100% premium to risk free depends on the level. Which would you prefer a risk free 0.1% or a slightly risky 0.2%? I don't consider myself particularily clever! though I do my research well, and I am not a 'lucky' person. However, I have not lost a single penny with any of my P2P investments over 15 years, other than in 'real terms' (against inflation). Maybe it's because I only ever used larger, well proven platforms, Zopa, FC, LW, RS and LP. Sure it's been stressful at times and I have found LW to be especially challenging! but throughout all of that I have never actually lost anything. I am very pleased for you that you've never lost a penny in over 15 years. You have either been incredibly clever or incredibly lucky, or a combination of the both! The reason I say that is the majority of long-term P2P lenders I know have lost at the very least some of their capital and in most cases a lot of their capital through one or more of the many P2P platforms that went into Administration etc. It seems like your low-risk low-return strategy, which you focused on lending via the bigger P2P platforms that paid lower interest rates, could have been your saving grace. I don't know if it's stupid of me to do so, but my philosophy is that I don't want to put all this work in and invest my money for a mere c. 4% p.a. return, so most of my P2P lending has always gone on platforms that pay 7%+. But, as we've all seen, the platforms that pay the higher rates have often been the ones that lenders have lost their shirts on.
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Post by df on Aug 28, 2022 1:52:43 GMT
I don't consider myself particularily clever! though I do my research well, and I am not a 'lucky' person. However, I have not lost a single penny with any of my P2P investments over 15 years, other than in 'real terms' (against inflation). Maybe it's because I only ever used larger, well proven platforms, Zopa, FC, LW, RS and LP. Sure it's been stressful at times and I have found LW to be especially challenging! but throughout all of that I have never actually lost anything. I am very pleased for you that you've never lost a penny in over 15 years. You have either been incredibly clever or incredibly lucky, or a combination of the both! The reason I say that is the majority of long-term P2P lenders I know have lost at the very least some of their capital and in most cases a lot of their capital through one or more of the many P2P platforms that went into Administration etc. It seems like your low-risk low-return strategy, which you focused on lending via the bigger P2P platforms that paid lower interest rates, could have been your saving grace. I don't know if it's stupid of me to do so, but my philosophy is that I don't want to put all this work in and invest my money for a mere c. 4% p.a. return, so most of my P2P lending has always gone on platforms that pay 7%+. But, as we've all seen, the platforms that pay the higher rates have often been the ones that lenders have lost their shirts on. I doubt many investors who are stuck in administrated or winding down platforms know what exactly their p2p balance is... I have some idea of my expected outcomes from Ly, FS and MT, but not from Col and Abl. This is my list of crystallised, including those near enough to assume the outcome (FC and LW): Bond Mason -0.25% Connective Lending 12.78% Funding Circle 4.05% Growth Street 6.72% Landbay 7.90% Lending Works 1.34% Rate Setter 7.13% Welendus(FO) 10.30% Zopa 5.18%
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littleoldlady
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Running down all platforms due to age
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Post by littleoldlady on Aug 28, 2022 8:21:26 GMT
I wholeheartedly agree with you. I have invested in all the larger P2P platforms and most other assets too. I haven't lost a penny on my P2P investments over the last 15 years, not one penny. . Are you saying that you have not lost a penny on any platform or on any loan, despite using "all the larger P2P platforms"? Did these platforms include L, FS, MT, C? If you have invested in all of these and not lost a penny on any loan then you are right, you are neither clever nor lucky. You are a miracle worker.
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Post by indexfund on Aug 28, 2022 10:45:34 GMT
I wholeheartedly agree with you. I have invested in all the larger P2P platforms and most other assets too. I haven't lost a penny on my P2P investments over the last 15 years, not one penny. . Are you saying that you have not lost a penny on any platform or on any loan, despite using "all the larger P2P platforms"? Did these platforms include L, FS, MT, C? If you have invested in all of these and not lost a penny on any loan then you are right, you are neither clever nor lucky. You are a miracle worker. Correct, not invested in those platforms. To be specific, invested in over many years: LW, RS, Z, LP, FC, PL - Now only LP and PL. And I stand by what I have said, along with others who have perhaps been somewhat less speculative, and have done their research well. I am not pushing P2P generally, just putting the case forward that a lot of investors have done reasonably well out of P2P in a well diversified low risk portfolio. However, it is a shrinking market and there are less opertunities.
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Post by Ace on Aug 28, 2022 11:40:29 GMT
I am very pleased for you that you've never lost a penny in over 15 years. You have either been incredibly clever or incredibly lucky, or a combination of the both! The reason I say that is the majority of long-term P2P lenders I know have lost at the very least some of their capital and in most cases a lot of their capital through one or more of the many P2P platforms that went into Administration etc. It seems like your low-risk low-return strategy, which you focused on lending via the bigger P2P platforms that paid lower interest rates, could have been your saving grace. I don't know if it's stupid of me to do so, but my philosophy is that I don't want to put all this work in and invest my money for a mere c. 4% p.a. return, so most of my P2P lending has always gone on platforms that pay 7%+. But, as we've all seen, the platforms that pay the higher rates have often been the ones that lenders have lost their shirts on. I doubt many investors who are stuck in administrated or winding down platforms know what exactly their p2p balance is... I have some idea of my expected outcomes from Ly, FS and MT, but not from Col and Abl. This is my list of crystallised, including those near enough to assume the outcome (FC and LW): Bond Mason -0.25% Connective Lending 12.78% Funding Circle 4.05% Growth Street 6.72% Landbay 7.90% Lending Works 1.34% Rate Setter 7.13% Welendus(FO) 10.30% Zopa 5.18% Here's the crystallised XIRRs from my exited and almost exited platforms for comparison: | Platform | df | Ace | | Bond Mason | -0.25% | | | Connective Lending | 12.78% | 13.35% | | Funding Circle | 4.05% | 3.15% | | Growth Street | 6.72% | 6.98% | | Landbay | 7.90% | | | Lending Works | 1.34% | 4.64% | | Rate Setter | 7.13% | 4.46% | | Welendus (FO) | 10.30% | 4.83% | | Zopa | 5.18% | 3.13% | | British Pearl |
| -6.44% | | Mintos (Sterling) |
| 11.76% | | Mintos (Euros) |
| 14.90% | | Robocash (Euros) |
| 12.44% |
You seemed to have fared much better with the former "big three". I never really liked them, probably because I was rubbish at playing their games. You've done much better on W (FO). My returns there were severely impacted by over a year with zero profit once I requested to withdraw. Did you avoid this somehow? My better performance on LW will likely have been due to me taking their offer of a penalty free exit for 90% of my funds. The performance since has been very poor.
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benaj
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N/A
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Post by benaj on Aug 28, 2022 12:03:20 GMT
www.nsandi.com/products/green-savings-bondsNSand I offers 3% FSCS fixed for 3 years, it might appeal to certain investors. TBH, I have some money stuck at GBBAx account with AC and I have no idea when it will be repaid eventually.
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Post by indexfund on Aug 28, 2022 13:43:39 GMT
www.nsandi.com/products/green-savings-bondsNSand I offers 3% FSCS fixed for 3 years, it might appeal to certain investors. TBH, I have some money stuck at GBBAx account with AC and I have no idea when it will be repaid eventually. 3% fixed for three years looks like a poor deal in a high inflation/rising rate enviroment. But as a small part of a long term strategy/small hedge in a diversified portfolio it has it's place I guess.
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Post by df on Aug 28, 2022 17:09:19 GMT
I doubt many investors who are stuck in administrated or winding down platforms know what exactly their p2p balance is... I have some idea of my expected outcomes from Ly, FS and MT, but not from Col and Abl. This is my list of crystallised, including those near enough to assume the outcome (FC and LW): Bond Mason -0.25% Connective Lending 12.78% Funding Circle 4.05% Growth Street 6.72% Landbay 7.90% Lending Works 1.34% Rate Setter 7.13% Welendus(FO) 10.30% Zopa 5.18% Here's the crystallised XIRRs from my exited and almost exited platforms for comparison: | Platform | df | Ace | | Bond Mason | -0.25% | | | Connective Lending | 12.78% | 13.35% | | Funding Circle | 4.05% | 3.15% | | Growth Street | 6.72% | 6.98% | | Landbay | 7.90% | | | Lending Works | 1.34% | 4.64% | | Rate Setter | 7.13% | 4.46% | | Welendus (FO) | 10.30% | 4.83% | | Zopa | 5.18% | 3.13% | | British Pearl |
| -6.44% | | Mintos (Sterling) |
| 11.76% | | Mintos (Euros) |
| 14.90% | | Robocash (Euros) |
| 12.44% |
You seemed to have fared much better with the former "big three". I never really liked them, probably because I was rubbish at playing their games. You've done much better on W (FO). My returns there were severely impacted by over a year with zero profit once I requested to withdraw. Did you avoid this somehow? My better performance on LW will likely have been due to me taking their offer of a penalty free exit for 90% of my funds. The performance since has been very poor. Bonuses in relation to invested sum can make a big difference. For example my Landbay figure includes £50 bonus and I only invested 1k for 15 months, if I invested 10k with the same bonus my LB XIRR would've been very different. W (FO). I've started from the very beginning, tried different rates across my investments, but then quickly realised that there's very little point picking lower rates and went for the maximum (was it 15%). When things gone weird with the platform, I didn't make any radical moves and put everything up for sale at later stage so presumably was still earning interest for some time. With RS I was trying to catch the higher rates and kept cash drag to almost zero. All my LW loans were 6% and later 6.5%. I've stopped depositing new money when they lowered the rates. Then it turned to negative rates, but they didn't seem to be that bad. I've sold a little bit at penalty fee, but decided to leave most of my funds to wind down. I guess I've made a big mistake there. FC. When I eventually sold everything sellable my annual return displayed on dashboard was 1.9%, but recoveries kept coming, so now it shows 3.2%. XIRR figure is higher probably because of the length of investment, I also had £50 bonus at the beginning and sold some loans at premium when the demand was still there. Looking back, if I sold everything at the point when FC scrapped manual investment my XIRR would've been significantly higher. Out of 'big three' Zopa was the best when they had PF, lower return but minimum maintenance and stable returns. With RS one had to put a lot of time in to lend at higher rates. FC was the worst, massive loan book to diversify but proportion of defaults was far too large.
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ashtondav
Member of DD Central
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Post by ashtondav on Aug 28, 2022 17:53:18 GMT
www.nsandi.com/products/green-savings-bondsNSand I offers 3% FSCS fixed for 3 years, it might appeal to certain investors. TBH, I have some money stuck at GBBAx account with AC and I have no idea when it will be repaid eventually. I was fortunate to buy 5 YEAR NS&I index linked bonds every year from 2005 to 2010, been renewing them every 5 years ever since and looking forward to 9 to 18% returns this year and next. Bought for inflation insurance - been a long time but insurance paying up!
Far and away better than my p2p, equity, gold, private equity, infrastructure, real estate or Crypto assets. A diversified portfolio is everything. ALWAYS!
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Post by df on Aug 28, 2022 18:42:36 GMT
www.nsandi.com/products/green-savings-bondsNSand I offers 3% FSCS fixed for 3 years, it might appeal to certain investors. TBH, I have some money stuck at GBBAx account with AC and I have no idea when it will be repaid eventually. In the current climate 3% fixed for 3 years is not a very attractive offer. I doubt GBBA will ever be fully repaid. For example, 336 is clearly a loss. I don't think there's enough in provision fund to cover the loss.
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Post by indexfund on Aug 29, 2022 9:26:18 GMT
www.nsandi.com/products/green-savings-bondsNSand I offers 3% FSCS fixed for 3 years, it might appeal to certain investors. TBH, I have some money stuck at GBBAx account with AC and I have no idea when it will be repaid eventually. I was fortunate to buy 5 YEAR NS&I index linked bonds every year from 2005 to 2010, been renewing them every 5 years ever since and looking forward to 9 to 18% returns this year and next. Bought for inflation insurance - been a long time but insurance paying up!
Far and away better than my p2p, equity, gold, private equity, infrastructure, real estate or Crypto assets. A diversified portfolio is everything. ALWAYS!
I thought NS&I had stopped their Index linked products?
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Greenwood2
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Post by Greenwood2 on Aug 29, 2022 9:58:57 GMT
I was fortunate to buy 5 YEAR NS&I index linked bonds every year from 2005 to 2010, been renewing them every 5 years ever since and looking forward to 9 to 18% returns this year and next. Bought for inflation insurance - been a long time but insurance paying up!
Far and away better than my p2p, equity, gold, private equity, infrastructure, real estate or Crypto assets. A diversified portfolio is everything. ALWAYS!
I thought NS&I had stopped their Index linked products? You can't buy them, but you can reinvest if you still have them.  Unfortunately I cashed in quite a lot, but the remainder are great at the minute.
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Unfortunately I cashed in quite a lot, but the remainder are great at the minute.